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Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

coding2learn.org

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Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#71

Post by Finster »

otakucode wrote: post #26

The problem isn't that these people can't use computers. It's that they can't THINK. They do not understand what critical thinking is, or how it works. They do not know how to approach problems or explore solutions. They don't know how to do it with their computer... or their car, or their vacuuming robot, or their television, or their oven or their relationships or any thing in their life. They don't understand why…

I pretty much agree with you, but I think the point is that focusing on technical education and incentivizing that learning (like the WPA2 key hidden in a 10,000 line text file) can help build critical thinking skills.

If instead of putting the computers to the side, actually building positive learning experiences involving computers, the critical thinking will be a natural outgrowth of that, IMHO.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#72

Post by area51org »

otakucode wrote: post #26

The problem isn't that these people can't use computers. It's that they can't THINK. They do not understand what critical thinking is, or how it works. They do not know how to approach problems or explore solutions. They don't know how to do it with their computer... or their car, or their vacuuming robot, or their television, or their oven or their relationships or any thing in their life. They don't understand why…

Related, relevant issue: I know people — in Silicon Valley! — who are proud of the fact that their elementary schools (private) have no computers, and avoid the subject entirely. Apparently they believe computing too early will change, for the worse, a child's brain. I suspect it would do the opposite: help their children be better critical thinkers than their parents obviously are.

You know, books change the way the mind works, too. That's bad. Better keep books out of the hands of children before their minds are warped.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#73

Post by eieio »

codyb wrote: post #66
rhizome wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain Are you kidding? She's a school teacher. Stress-free living at its best. It's been a long time since I've read an essay by an IT person so proud of their lack of bedside manner.

Have you ever been a school teacher? Or was that sarcasm? I'm going to imagine there are quite a few school teachers who would not call their jobs stress free.

I'm not rhizome but I'm pretty positive that the "stress free living" comment is sarcasm.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#74

Post by pastylegs »

Phargo wrote: post #6

Wow... "TL;DR? Why not just go watch another five second video of a kitten with it’s head in a toilet roll, or a 140 character description of a meal your friend just stuffed in their mouth. “num num”. This blog post is not for you." Snarky enough? If you start out like that I've already made the decision that you're over opinionated and probably prone to dramatic exaggeration.

I pressed back immediately after reading this opening. Not because I fall into the category of person the author describes but because I'm not bothered reading an article written by somebody who starts their blog posts by insulting their readers.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#75

Post by DSMan195276 »

I agree on a lot of the points. I think a key here is that I don't really think anybody knows what to teach people when they do teach them, and your beginning example shows it extremely clearly. You, having almost zero knowledge of OSX, managed to get things going for someone else who's been using it far longer then you have. It's not that you knew specifically how to fix the problem, it's that you knew the basic idea of what was wrong, an idea of things to look for, and enough critical thinking to figure your way through it. Most people miss that point.

While a wifi problem may be harder to fix then others, in most cases a problem can be solved just by knowing the right info to type into Google and then be able to do a bit of thinking over the results and which seem reasonable to try. Not only that, but a bit of knowledge of some basic symbols (Like, Ex. The various Wifi Symbols, or USB Symbol) and some basic UI knowledge (Like, Ex. Knowing what a bar or panel usually look like, and what a normal OS UI look's like. Text-Boxes, Scroll-bars, Check-boxes Vs. Radio-Buttons, Menus, etc....) go a long way.

I in no way expect everyone to become experts (I wouldn't really expect people to become good enough to reinstall the OS, for example. At that point, you'd want to show someone who knows what they're doing before going further). But, taking some time to teach some basics of more generic concepts, how to go about troubleshooting instead of just learning how to fix some basic problems, and some basics of where to look for various things goes a very long way.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#76

Post by ht_th »

cliveowen wrote: post #20

Kids know how to use computers, they know how to make them do what they need them to: browsing, email, some text-processing. Everything else, and I'm sorry to break it to you, it's the realm of technicians. The plumbers don't expect the average joe to know how to unblock an occluded pipe, do they? Expecting everyone to know how to configure advanced settings in a computer just because you know how to do it it's very…

In our highly sophisticated information society, not knowing how to interpret/represent/manipulate/generate information is a problem, especially for the higher educated. If you're not able to use general information processing tools, you've to depend and wait on others to process the information for you. Sprinkle in some automation and you're out of a job.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#77

Post by AndyKelley »

MarcScott wrote: post #10
Phargo wrote: post #6

Wow... "TL;DR? Why not just go watch another five second video of a kitten with it’s head in a toilet roll, or a 140 character description of a meal your friend just stuffed in their mouth. “num num”. This blog post is not for you." Snarky enough? If you start out like that I've already made the decision that you're over opinionated and probably prone to dramatic exaggeration.

Yes. I am over opinionated and prone to dramatic exaggeration. Point taken though, and I'll remove the TL;DR.

Please don't remove it. I hate to say it but... Haters gonna hate.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#78

Post by salem »

rhizome wrote: post #52
simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain Are you kidding? She's a school teacher. Stress-free living at its best. It's been a long time since I've read an essay by an IT person so proud of their lack of bedside manner.

Did you read the blog? He's a teacher first, and defacto admin second due to everyone else's laziness and ignorance. That takes a lot of patience.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#79

Post by unabridged »

ethanbond wrote: post #2

So I take it the author can fix any brand of car and would, without missing a beat, answer questions like "where's the expansion tank?" I'm so tired of "tech savvy" people simultaneously sitting on their high chairs and large salaries dissuading anything that makes their trade less esoteric - and then talking down to those who can't pierce the veil for whatever reason (whether it by financial, intellectual, or just n…

Its not about having instant knowledge in your head, its about critical thinking and being able to find a solution yourself. I think a good programmer armed with the right tools, a Chiltons manual, and an internet connection could fix any problem in a car.

And the story is not about an average person, its about a person who teaches computer classes. The equivalent would be someone teaching classes about cars but not being able to answer what a transmission is.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#80

Post by Chattered »

MarcScott wrote: post #40
bambax wrote: post #32

> a kitten with it’s head in a toilet roll its head If your plan is to insult readers before they even start to read your rant, can you at least make an effort to spell your insults correctly?

Oops. I'm sure you'll find lots of other grammar and spelling errors.

Not to mention the fact that aleph isn't anything. The alephs are indexed by ordinals, the smallest being aleph_0.

Because of this mistake, I shall dismiss all arguments made in the blog post.

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