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NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

reuters.com

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Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#31

Post by neutronicus »

DevX101 wrote: post #3
ihsw wrote: post #2

Contrary to the article's inflammatory title, software engineers haven't quit their jobs at the USG en masse. As for the "with the government" vs the "for the government" rebuttals: surveillance and research contractors haven't stopped working with the USG either.

I don't think there will be droves of people leaving because of recent scandals. But it sure will make it harder to answer a smart college grad who asks "Why should I work for the NSA?" when he/she has options at private tech companies.

The answer is easy.

I like money, I like job security, I like playing for a winner, I like being on the bleeding edge.

Were I crypto guy, I would snatch up a vacated-on-principle spot at the NSA in a heartbeat.

Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#32

Post by mjolk »

tptacek wrote: post #29

The most dangerous and stupid meme percolating in pop tech culture is that the people engaged with tech culture have a unique claim to computer science, electrical engineering, cryptography, information security, and privacy technology. The Slashdot diaspora genuinely believes that most of the world's computer engineering talent reads their comments. The reality is that not only does money do a fine job of buying tal…

>In fact, I think it's likely that they're significantly smarter than any of us. Bear that in mind when you design your NSA-proof email applications.

Math is math and it's relatively easy to implement decent encryption -- it is possible to pass data securely from end to end.

The larger issue with these projects is that they're usually proposed by someone that can sling a bit of Ruby and fashions him/herself a cyber revolutionary, not someone that understands that the real power of the US Government in the tech sphere is its ability to apply pressure away from a keyboard - whether it be a subpoena for raw data from a hosting provider, legal fuckery, or sending armed soldiers to your doorstep.

Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#33

Post by tptacek »

mjolk wrote: post #32
tptacek wrote: post #29

The most dangerous and stupid meme percolating in pop tech culture is that the people engaged with tech culture have a unique claim to computer science, electrical engineering, cryptography, information security, and privacy technology. The Slashdot diaspora genuinely believes that most of the world's computer engineering talent reads their comments. The reality is that not only does money do a fine job of buying tal…

>In fact, I think it's likely that they're significantly smarter than any of us. Bear that in mind when you design your NSA-proof email applications. Math is math and it's relatively easy to implement decent encryption -- it is possible to pass data securely from end to end. The larger issue with these projects is that they're usually proposed by someone that can sling a bit of Ruby and fashions him/herself a cyber r…

Heh.

Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#34

Post by aristus »

tptacek wrote: post #29

The most dangerous and stupid meme percolating in pop tech culture is that the people engaged with tech culture have a unique claim to computer science, electrical engineering, cryptography, information security, and privacy technology. The Slashdot diaspora genuinely believes that most of the world's computer engineering talent reads their comments. The reality is that not only does money do a fine job of buying tal…

Cryptographers understand this fact more than most; what we know of crypto is often rediscoveries of secret stuff, years late, kind of like how open-source "big data" software is a clone of whatever Google was doing 5-10 years ago.

Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#35

Post by walshemj »

Ygg2 wrote: post #9
wf wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except... They aren't only recruiting "smart college grads" they're recruiting smart college Freshmen etc. I know several people who did internships with the NSA/DoD starting their freshmen year. And I can tell you at that point there is still the shiny, "I work for the NSA! This is so cool!" feeling.

If their friends, condemned their actions i.e. working for a bunch of incompetent, paranoid spooks, their job outlook would change as well.

How would their friends know you you are working for the NSA? Shurly you sign the official secrets act (the US version of it) at the interview stage and have an agreed cover story for your referees.

Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#36

Post by walshemj »

tptacek wrote: post #33
mjolk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In fact, I think it's likely that they're significantly smarter than any of us. Bear that in mind when you design your NSA-proof email applications. Math is math and it's relatively easy to implement decent encryption -- it is possible to pass data securely from end to end. The larger issue with these projects is that they're usually proposed by someone that can sling a bit of Ruby and fashions him/herself a cyber r…

Heh.

yeah right if your Bruce it is :-)

Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#37

Post by tptacek »

aristus wrote: post #34
tptacek wrote: post #29

The most dangerous and stupid meme percolating in pop tech culture is that the people engaged with tech culture have a unique claim to computer science, electrical engineering, cryptography, information security, and privacy technology. The Slashdot diaspora genuinely believes that most of the world's computer engineering talent reads their comments. The reality is that not only does money do a fine job of buying tal…

Cryptographers understand this fact more than most; what we know of crypto is often rediscoveries of secret stuff, years late, kind of like how open-source "big data" software is a clone of whatever Google was doing 5-10 years ago.

I love how tech activists behave as if they're just now discovering that NSA has far-reaching technical capabilities. As I recall, something like 1/5th of Applied Cryptography is dedicated to teaching people how powerful NSA is. When NIST standardized DSA, they had to try to document the process by which the groups were generated, because half the cryptography world just basically assumed as an article of faith that anything NIST standardized must be backdoored.

Hell, fundamental understanding of NSA's superior technological capabilities is as old as DES.

Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#39

Post by sharrocker »

tptacek what is your sourcing on this? I have spoken with people at engineering schools-- including those with close ties with the NSA, where NSA goes for hiring-- and they say the NSA is hurting. A recently retired (as in that month) fed at DefCon said straight up we are seriously behind you guys and cant keep up because of bureaucracy.

Re: NSA revelations could hurt collaboration with 'betrayed' hackers

#40

Post by yareally »

gregd wrote: post #27
yareally wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "There have always been reasons to object to working in national defense. During the Cold War quite a few physicists and engineers chose not to go into defense work because they did not want to feel like they were hastening nuclear Armageddon." Robert Oppenheimer, the "Father of the Atomic Bomb," lost his security clearance and his position on the Atomic Energy Commission for voicing concerns and refusing to direct…

I also highly recommend reading the book, American Prometheus. http://www.amazon.com/American-Prometheus-Triumph-Tragedy-Op...

I'll have to pick it up. I've always considered Oppenheimer one of the most interesting people to have lived. He was very charismatic, winning over scientist and bureaucrat alike and a compromiser when necessary, but yet would not compromise when it came to the issue of the hydrogen bomb at the height of "McCarthyism". Too bad he's mostly forgotten in present day history.
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