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Lavabit abruptly shuts down

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Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#571

Post by Peaker »

cLeEOGPw wrote: post #401
sneak wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only nonviolent solution I've found is to move away and stop paying taxes to the US war machine. Don't use or support services that pay US taxes, either. It's what I did. PS: It is very, very, very difficult, because most of the people you care about will not move with you.

Don't be delusional. Unless you have business intentions, that rely on government not knowing what your business is, it is NOT, by any stretch of imagination" a reason to leave a country like USA, the more so for a Central American country. This issue is so minor to most people that many don't even give it much thought. I am sure you can live with the government watching you and still make some kind of contribution t…

It doesn't really matter that much that the NSA spies on the whole world. I care a lot less that other governments watch me than my own government.

Other governments can watch all day, but they don't yield serious power over me.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#572

Post by muyuu »

darklajid wrote: post #202
meritt wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving services off USA-based companies is like using two bicycle locks instead of one. A determined government is still going to get your data, they just need to spend a bit more time. Focus instead on encryption.

No, do both. Focus on encryption, to keep ahead and protect the data. Move out of the US, because it sucks, is far from 'the land of the free' anymore and needs to learn that its place in the digital world is not at the top, but more around the center. Between lots of other states that fail and fail again, in terms of surveillance..

Yep, as an added bonus you stop financing the US war and terror machine.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#573

Post by draugadrotten »

northwest wrote: post #551
qwerta wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you name some examples from Europe? Cases when police physically takes servers are common. But I never heard of case where police would require encryption keys for 'maybe we will needed it'.

Also, what prevents the guy from setting up that service in a European country (Switzerland is not subject to EU laws)? I don't see why his 10 years of work would be lost.

He might not want to relocate.

It's risky to relocate the servers in another country. You will have to obey the other country's laws, but the US gov will still claim jurisdiction if the staff and/or owner is in the US. The US will even claim jurisdiction as soon as you use a ".com" domain [1]

Of course the hosting nation will also claim jurisdiction. So relocating your servers to one country while staying in another will expose you to two national laws as well as any international agreements between these nations.

[1] Richard O’Dwyer, a UK citizen who ran a UK-based web site, was facing extradition to the U.S. because he used a .com domain. - http://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/jun/17/student-file-shar...

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#574

Post by RyanZAG »

GoodIntentions wrote: post #488
RyanZAG wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And Germany has also laws which force every mail provider to install an access point to the German authorities and intelligence agencies. I am not sure if also a generic saas platform would have to do it, but it is quite possible." Thanks for the heads up - as I said in the OP, it really is a difficult task. Those kind of laws are exactly what need to be avoided when choosing a country to host in. I don't believe th…

I was surprised to see Canada green on that map. We have a great privacy commissioner ( http://www.priv.gc.ca/index_e.asp ) but the office holds no power so far as I can see, and the Canadian government has a pretty solid track record of being obsequiously cooperative with u.s. interests

Canada is green simply because nobody familiar with Canada's security politics and policies has chimed in yet and there does not seem to be any evidence of foul play that is visible from an outsider's perspective.

Cooperative with U.S. interests is generally assumed by almost any country - this map is more about the (hopeful) safety of your servers in data centers in different countries.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#575

Post by jobigoud »

thetrb wrote: post #393
ptwiggens wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They take a photo of the front and back of every piece of mail that is sent. Your content is safe, but they still get the metadata.

Couldn't you just leave off the return address? In this case there's not much metadata to collect except for the recipient address.

I did a fun experiment once. I wrote the actual recipient address in the return address place, and put a non existant address in the front. I also didn't stamp it. It did arrive to the recipient 2 weeks later, with a "return to sender" banner.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#576

Post by andy_ppp »

Given what we know about all this; the NSA has a legal right to retain access to everything - you have no right to complain or to stop it (because of the terrorists/children/anything that'll wash), we can assume Google Glass is a dead product at this point right?

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#577

Post by kbart »

DominikR wrote: post #547
kbart wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second to that. If you want security (at least on a servers/ISP level) choose some 3rd world country which government (preferably not very fond of USA) does not have technical means on surveillance. I live in a small EU country and government’s IT forces are just laughable, so I can just imagine that in less civilised countries it should be close to non-existent. Combined with strong encryption to protect data in b…

The problem is that most 3rd world countries will just come knocking on your doors and take everything away, if the US goverment requests it. After all, those countries wouldn't be 3rd world countries, if they had the power to resist US threats/requests. Or they are part of the "axis of evil" (or whatever the current propaganda term is), in which case the internet connection to that country could either be cut off, o…

But they still need proper, court issued warrant. At least there would be no invisible laws or secret agencies involved.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#578

Post by kbart »

honzzz wrote: post #560
kbart wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second to that. If you want security (at least on a servers/ISP level) choose some 3rd world country which government (preferably not very fond of USA) does not have technical means on surveillance. I live in a small EU country and government’s IT forces are just laughable, so I can just imagine that in less civilised countries it should be close to non-existent. Combined with strong encryption to protect data in b…

I understand what you mean but I think the term '3rd world country' could be a bit discouraging to some of our American friends who might not have a clear picture about realities in our part of the world. For example I also live in a small EU country. By no means this is a 3rd world country - we have pretty strong IT industry (e.g. some globally successful antivirus companies etc.) and the country is certainly develo…

Hah, good point. I bet most of Americans (no offence here) imagine that "3rd world" means "people still live in caves and hunts wild animals for food". However, a very good counter example is Skype which went worldwide even though started in a small, 3rd world country known as Estonia.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#579

Post by iand »

varjag wrote: post #550
icelancer wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That leaves the Scandinavian countries, I suppose, but I have a hard time seeing a lot of libertarian-minded people fleeing the U.S. for that collectivist utopia. As a pragmatic libertarian, I am willing to pay many more dollars in taxes to provide services I don't agree with so long as little to none of my tax dollars go towards bombing brown people and spying on citizens. Some things are worth compromising over.

All Scandinavian countries do implement EU Data Retention Directive just as well.

Can you confirm this since Norway is not in the EU

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#580

Post by glogla »

honzzz wrote: post #560
kbart wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second to that. If you want security (at least on a servers/ISP level) choose some 3rd world country which government (preferably not very fond of USA) does not have technical means on surveillance. I live in a small EU country and government’s IT forces are just laughable, so I can just imagine that in less civilised countries it should be close to non-existent. Combined with strong encryption to protect data in b…

I understand what you mean but I think the term '3rd world country' could be a bit discouraging to some of our American friends who might not have a clear picture about realities in our part of the world. For example I also live in a small EU country. By no means this is a 3rd world country - we have pretty strong IT industry (e.g. some globally successful antivirus companies etc.) and the country is certainly develo…

Yes, however, all of the mobile internet providers are censored with the infamous Wikipedia-blocking UK internet filter, and it can't be turned off.
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