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Lavabit abruptly shuts down

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Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#531

Post by kbart »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #430
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is just as bad or worse. You have to move the data in/out of the country. It definitely isn't protected when it leaves the country. The only advantage I see is that it punishes US businesses for failing to protest.

Dual US/Polish citizen here. Just wanted to say that in many cases abroad (i.e. Poland) the case isn't about the laws protecting your privacy but rather about the Government having no means (technical, resources, know-how, etc) to enforce ridicolous things like reading and storing email contents of all the people. Even with court order just to read stuff in your inbox, I would imagine that the Polish police would hav…

I second to that. If you want security (at least on a servers/ISP level) choose some 3rd world country which government (preferably not very fond of USA) does not have technical means on surveillance. I live in a small EU country and government’s IT forces are just laughable, so I can just imagine that in less civilised countries it should be close to non-existent. Combined with strong encryption to protect data in broad Internet it should do, at least for a while..

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#532

Post by lawl »

jerfelix wrote: post #87
lawl wrote: post #63

I really would want to donate to them. But you know I kind of feel weary now connecting my PayPal Account with them. I hope some kind of organisation is standing up for them. Like EFF or something. Not because I don't trust them. But because I don't trust the NSA. They might flag me as a terrorist or something. Then again I'm probably already on this list for having some technical involvment with something the US gov…

There should be a bitcoin address for donations. There's no reason to trust me, but if you send me bitcoins, I'll convert to dollars and send to the fund. You preserve your anonymity. I'll convert all donations at the end of each month. 173WSQxBiwswTtMBxnnhGTZJtTy2RrdLgn

Thanks for the offer, unfortunately I don't have any bitcoins so i would first have to buy them. Which I would have to do with money that can be traced back to me...

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#533

Post by cmccabe »

greendata wrote: post #367
RyanZAG wrote: post #24

I'm in the process of moving any Saas offerings I use off USA-affiliated companies, but it's actually more difficult than I first thought. I believe there might even be a very profitable market in simply duplicating the functionality of Saas offerings at a higher price with security/privacy guarantees in Germany/HK/etc. Might be the next hot business to be in? You'd be surprised as to the number of people seeking alt…

It's not just going to be hosting providers that are affected by this. It's going to lawyers, software engineers, sys admins, writers and graphic designers who are going to lose work/business from SAAS companies. Software is one of the few areas where the US economy is growing somewhat sustainably (as opposed to banking/gambling/housing speculation/medical expenses for elderly). The NSA and all those NSA contractors…

The safeguards for foreigners are much less than those for US citizens. For example, the NSA doesn't need to go through FISA court to spy on non-citizens. So if you store your data on a non-US server, you're probably just making it easier for them to get to it, not harder.

Not to mention, most countries will pretty much cooperate with the US when it comes to intelligence. The only ones that might not are countries like Russia or China that have their own military-industrial complexes, which are just as eager to get at your data and a lot less scrupulous about using it.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#534

Post by lawl »

aspensmonster wrote: post #293
Dosenpfand wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're so easily intimidated why do you still post comments about the NSA on the internet?

Because the list of mere sympathizers, while surely long, is not nearly as bad a list to find oneself on as a list of material supporters. Squeal all you want, but if you want to speak with your wallet... Watch out. That is of course assuming that donations are even possible and that the recipient is not the target of an international banking blockade designed specifically to financially starve politically undesirabl…

This. And structured data vs. unstructured data :)

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#535

Post by cmccabe »

pinchyfingers wrote: post #356
MrKurtz wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are seriously suggesting that abandoning the US market is a realistic option, especially for a multibillion dollar corporation, then you are (and I'm not using this word lightly) an idiot . Not to mention that there is no US equivalent to the rampant human rights violations and censorship in China.

The US certainly has many more prisoners per capita and in total than China does. Also, the U.S. government is censoring Ladar Levison of Lavabit and others in his situation. I've never been to China to see anything for myself, so I won't make further comparison, but prison state thing definitely bothers me.

I've never been to China to see anything for myself...

Yep, I can tell. I can tell you haven't read about it either.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#536

Post by olsn »

A "complicit in crimes against the American people" - he's just providing a tool, if he's a complicit then ANY weapon-/gun-manufacturer in the US is a complicit in armed crimes/murders against American citizens!

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#537

Post by harrytuttle »

angersock wrote: post #436
harrytuttle wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well anything that hits an MTA or MDA and sits in a queue somewhere on rust is liable to be snagged. That's usually every host between you and the destination MUA. The whole protocol and mail delivery system is fucking hopeless. As an ex-ISP mail architect and ex-operations guy, I hope the whole existing email protocol suite and architecture dies in a fire.

Your username combined with your claimed former work experience is utterly hilarious--thank you for the levity in this dark time.

The name came after many years of filling in paperwork :)

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#538

Post by harrytuttle »

pyre wrote: post #432
harrytuttle wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well anything that hits an MTA or MDA and sits in a queue somewhere on rust is liable to be snagged. That's usually every host between you and the destination MUA. The whole protocol and mail delivery system is fucking hopeless. As an ex-ISP mail architect and ex-operations guy, I hope the whole existing email protocol suite and architecture dies in a fire.

The problem is that, left to market forces, we would end up with an email solution that looks like (or is) Facebook.

I'd rather we stopped talking electronically than ended up with Facebook.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#539

Post by kbart »

nilved wrote: post #463
MarcScott wrote: post #320

Can you imagine if this had been the response from Google, Microsoft and Yahoo when the FISA court demanded they hand over data? I commend Ladar Levison.

If I was using Google, Microsoft or Yahoo I wouldn't have found out that my primary email account was shut down abruptly, my subscription canceled without refund and my email lost without any ability to download it. Not sure if that's really a worthwhile tradeoff for the average person.

On the contrary, I believe millions of angry Gmail and Facebook users (and voters) COULD have influenced some politic decisions on this matter.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#540

Post by madaxe »

greendata wrote: post #372
guelo wrote: post #183

The US government is destroying one of the few bright spots in the American economy with its out of control military. It is unconscionable. And the sad thing is it has been enabled by the betrayal by many of the web 2.0 giants, Facebook, Google etc. Google especially is sad to see since they were willing to forgo the Chinese market on principle, but then decided that taking on the authoritarian US government was too…

Agreed, these US Gov contractors and agencies systematically destroying our industry and our prospects. As a community, let's shun and shame all those who continue work for those agencies (NSA/CIA/FBI/DIA/DEA) both directly and as contractors from this date forward. If you didn't quite in August 2013, we don't want to hire you. If you quite now in disgust, we should view that in a positive light. If you or your compa…

I shun and shame the people I know that work for "the machine". They're equally culpable, as they choose to work for evil.
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