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Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

blog.soylent.me

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Re: Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

#171

Post by betterunix »

javert wrote: post #85
betterunix wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Bitcoin has no rigorous security definition. 2. Bitcoin can be "attacked" (for some vague notion of what it means to attack a system that has no security definition) in polynomial time. 3. The economics of Bitcoin are extremely suspect and based on a poorly developed economic model, supported by neither the Austrian school nor by modern monetary theory. This is probably the underlying cause of the lack of a securi…

It's hard to downvote a thoughtful comment from a smart person, but you're just plain, flat out wrong. Bitcoin is a heuristic for Byzantine concensus that requires 50% + epsilon of mining hash power to subvert. This is not explicitly stated in the original paper, but the original paper comes very close. I don't know what else you would want. Regarding economics: All you need for a functioning currency is a supply of…

You are already giving an unclear definition when you use terms like "mining hash power." What rigorous definition can you give for that term? What sort of model of computation are we working with (or is the definition based on information theory?)?

For comparison, consider the definition of security used in this recently published paper:

http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/443

The definition is long, but very clear. Probabilistic polynomial time Turing machines are used as a model of computation; the adversary is given more power by being allowed to be non-uniform (i.e. the adversary can be a different machine for different security parameters). The security properties are clearly defined in terms of this model of computation, and a construction is given and proved to meet the properties (under certain hardness assumptions).

Note that there is no possible way that Bitcoin could meet the security definition given in that paper, because that definition requires the existence of a bank that issues the cash. This is true of previous work on digital cash as well, including the work that preceded Bitcoin. That is why it is necessary to develop a security definition that makes sense for systems like Bitcoin -- digital cash systems in which there is no bank. That is the complaint I have: no satisfactory definition has been given.

"This is not part of any proir school of economics, but it's close to common sense, and is strongly supported by the success of bitcoin thus far."

Economics often defies common sense, so I would be wary of using common sense as the basis for a currency.

Re: Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

#172

Post by rza »

I would love to believe in this product, but there are just so many sketchy statements on the homepage alone that I doubt the ability of the team. People are literally going to entrust their lives to this product and the best third-party assurances they have are completely un-cited quotes such as:

"The taste is awesome."

"As a Biologist/Chemist I approve of Soylent and really want to start using it."

"My mood experience! It has improved a lot lately. And by a lot, I mean A LOT."

Re: Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

#173

Post by [deleted] »

rza wrote: post #172

I would love to believe in this product, but there are just so many sketchy statements on the homepage alone that I doubt the ability of the team. People are literally going to entrust their lives to this product and the best third-party assurances they have are completely un-cited quotes such as: "The taste is awesome." "As a Biologist/Chemist I approve of Soylent and really want to start using it." "My mood experie…

[deleted]

Re: Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

#174

Post by nazgulnarsil »

polymatter wrote: post #156
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see comments like this a lot, and I think it's pretty disingenuous to jump from the garbage diet most people have and claim the only worthwhile improvement is one supported by rock solid conclusive scientific support. Nutrition science is in a pretty bad state, but that doesn't mean you should continue eating baconators.

well, without solid scientific support I am loath to enact major lifestyle changes with an uncertain gain long into the future. especially when there are so many competing mutually exclusive theories of which lifestyle change is 'correct', so I'd have to decide on what was the best theory at the time. and then I might go through years of misery and _still_ not get any gain. I make some effort to favor variety of frui…

You've made some changes based on the most well supported bits of systematic reviews of epidemiological and intervention studies. Is the place you have stopped optimal in terms of effort:reward? You're going to be eating daily for the next several decades at least, small amounts of effort amortize pretty well.

Re: Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

#175

Post by eru »

radarsat1 wrote: post #153
eru wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious comment. I meant, skipping breakfast in the morning ain't all that hard, if you can endure a few days of hunger in the morning until your body adapts. Fasting in any form is something you get better at with practice.

As someone who recently moved to Paris, I can confirm. Parisians don't eat breakfast. It's weird, and I miss my big north-american breakfast, but I'm getting used to it.

French breakfast: black coffee and a cigarette.

Re: Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

#176

Post by eru »

josephpmay wrote: post #161
eru wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious comment. I meant, skipping breakfast in the morning ain't all that hard, if you can endure a few days of hunger in the morning until your body adapts. Fasting in any form is something you get better at with practice.

I get extreme rage/anger and think somewhat suicidal thoughts when I skip a meal, so I don't think this would be such a good idea for me. Edit: In fact, if I eat an early enough breakfast, I will need a snack before lunch hour to be able to remain focused.

That's your current state. And my (admittedly uneducated) guess is you probably have very swinging blood sugar levels.

Depending on diet and training, you can get over this (not that you have to).

Re: Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

#177

Post by schiffern »

DanBC wrote: post #144
schiffern wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 bottles of Ensure Complete would only be 1400 Calories/day, vs. 2200 Calories for Soylent. You'd have to drink 6/day, making it $66.43/wk for Ensure Complete (cheapest Amazon price) vs. $52.88/wk for Soylent. Of course, you said that you considered $73.48/wk to be "very close to Soylent pricing". Sure it's in the same order of magnitude, but a 40% increase is nothing to sneeze at.

Ensure Plus is higher calorie. You don't want the high calorie versions because people are going to be chugging this stuff to avoid feeling hungry.

Ensure Plus contains 350 Calories, exactly the same as Ensure Complete.

Re: Soylent now accepting Bitcoin for preorders

#178

Post by pydave »

ynniv wrote: post #119
pydave wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Soylent sounds like it's made of soy, but the name essentially means cannibalism. I'd expect the former to kill enthusiasm from the energy drink market (where the cannibalism angle makes it sound more extreme) and the latter to put off everyone else.

The literary evocation is far more powerful than the word-part "soy". Even so, given soy's ubiquity I suspect that no one would seriously be turned off by it at this point. The name doesn't "essentially mean cannibalism", it refers to a fictional future company that makes the bulk of the worlds' food in the form of Soylent Red and Soylent Yellow. In the movie Soylent introduced a new product Green that you refer to,…

I haven't seen Soylent Green in a long time and all I remember is "Soylent Green is people". I'd guess that many people who haven't seen the movie know that line and nothing else.
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