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Lavabit abruptly shuts down

lavabit.com

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Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#31

Post by grey-area »

So he pretty much does say why he's shutting down, the US gov. has demanded access and he said no. Kudos for standing up for his users, and he does raise an interesting point at the end:

This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States.

The worst thing about this situation is that other governments like the UK, France and Germany are equally guilty.

For history on lavabit, see the cache, this page is now gone:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sclient=tablet-...

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#32

Post by toyg »

raganwald wrote: post #5

I like the part where he can't tell you why he's shutting down. As if we won't engage in rampant irresponsible speculation that they have told him to decrypt and forward everything to them in real time.

what would you have him do? He's clearly under NSL, so he can't tell you what he was asked for. This is the strongest statement he can legally make (in fact, i'm sure some US lawyers would argue that it's actually beyond that).

I guess we now know how it must have felt to watch republican institutions spiral into tyranny in ancient Rome.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#33

Post by jaggederest »

kefs wrote: post #26

Seems like it would make sense for users to demand that any US based service includes a warrant canary, just like rsync.net's implementation. A global canary + separate canaries for individual accounts would also make sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary http://rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt

I don't think canaries are effective. You can't get around a court order just by mental gymnastics, they'll hold you in contempt. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I suspect that they'd simply order you to keep updating the canary.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#34

Post by computer »

lmkg wrote: post #15

For the unfamiliar: Lavabit was a webmail service, that (claimed to) encrypt emails in such a way that they literally did not have access to the content stored on their own servers. The linked email would lend some credence to those claims. It was originally designed in contrast to gmail scanning your email for targeted advertising, but my imperfect memory says that their system should also have been resilient to "we…

It wouldn't be resilient to interception of mail going to and coming from lavabit however, since email is essentially a plaintext public protocol.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#35

Post by a3n »

raganwald wrote: post #5

I like the part where he can't tell you why he's shutting down. As if we won't engage in rampant irresponsible speculation that they have told him to decrypt and forward everything to them in real time.

You kind of have to assume that if you're a customer.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#36

Post by bgentry »

How long until PayPal suspends their legal defense fund?

On a serious note, if you want to donate to their defense fund, consider doing so anonymously. Pay cash for an Amex or Visa gift card, and use that to make your donation.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#37

Post by grey-area »

RyanZAG wrote: post #24

I'm in the process of moving any Saas offerings I use off USA-affiliated companies, but it's actually more difficult than I first thought. I believe there might even be a very profitable market in simply duplicating the functionality of Saas offerings at a higher price with security/privacy guarantees in Germany/HK/etc. Might be the next hot business to be in? You'd be surprised as to the number of people seeking alt…

I'd love to believe that the authorities in Germany are not also tapping lines like France or the UK. Do we have any proof that is the case? I agree this has made me think twice about hosting in the us, but also about crossing national boundaries full stop without encrypting traffic.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#38

Post by venomsnake »

rsync wrote: post #9

Time to donate to the EFF. They haven't been branded as a terrorist charity yet, AFAIK...

Don't give ideas.

Too bad that he does not have donations page. I would gladly donate. Also - respect for the decision he made. If he kickstarts a campaign for restoring the service I will be there too.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#39

Post by ferdo »

Takeaway:

> "This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States."

It's kind of fitting. The nation that spawned the internet is the nation that's killing the internet biz on its own turf.

Re: Lavabit abruptly shuts down

#40

Post by kefs »

jaggederest wrote: post #33
kefs wrote: post #26

Seems like it would make sense for users to demand that any US based service includes a warrant canary, just like rsync.net's implementation. A global canary + separate canaries for individual accounts would also make sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary http://rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt

I don't think canaries are effective. You can't get around a court order just by mental gymnastics, they'll hold you in contempt. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I suspect that they'd simply order you to keep updating the canary.

I'm also unsure of their proven effectiveness, but how could they hold you in contempt for _not_ taking an action?
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