Why I Changed My Mind On Weed • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#261

Post by tptacek » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 6:57 PM UTC

mistercow wrote: post #130

300bps wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We let chiropractors prescribe drugs in this country. What country is that, mistercow? Here in the United States, they cannot prescribe drugs with one notable exception in New Mexico for chiropractors that have received "advance practice" training. In fact, prescribing drugs actually goes against the chiropractic philosophy that involves physical manipulation of the body and your body's ability to heal itself. Source…

Hmm, it seems I was mistaken. We do let osteopaths prescribe medicine though, and that's almost as dumb. The rest of my point still stands.

Osteopaths are doctors. They aren't chiropractors.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#262

Post by kyro » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 6:58 PM UTC

kevincrane wrote: post #253

kyro wrote: post #191

I'm glad that Gupta has made this public apology. It takes a lot of courage to make that statement especially for someone with great public influence. I'm just curious as to why it took him this long. Medical marijuana has been prescribed in hospitals for some time with great benefit. I mean, just from a clinical standpoint, he should've seen the great upsides and limited downsides to using the drug. Patients, typica…

For what it's worth, there is relatively recent research showing that marijuana can be harmful to brains as they're still developing ([1] is the first one I remember reading), so his recommendation that his kids avoid it until they're older is probably sound. That being said, yes, I'm glad there's a higher profile scientist speaking out in favor of marijuana legalization, or at least more even-handed research of it.…

But legalizing it for recreational and medicinal use are two completely different issues. This piece is about how he didn't believe in the therapeutic efficacy of marijuana as medical treatment and weighed too heavily the research outlining its side-effects. This is not about letting kids and adults smoke bowls and bowls of weed on their leisure time.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#263

Post by bradleysmith » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

davidp wrote: post #87

tptacek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's a practicing neurosurgeon with published research, but, like half of HN, doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to radiological safety; therefore, his opinions on pharmacology are irrelevant to you? That seems like a surprisingly dumb argument for you, John, but maybe I just misunderstood it. At any rate, the importance of the piece isn't Gupta's authority on the subject. After all, vis a vis cannabi…

> but, like half of HN, doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to radiological safety I think you're being awfully generous to HN... But seriously, the key takeaway from articles like this one is that marijuana acceptance is finally becoming mainstream; five or ten years ago this kind of article would have been considered quite controversial for a major news organization like CNN, and may have been quashe…

I agree this is the major takeaway of the article.

Interesting to think that what is "mainstream" can be observed in what print-media outlet editors are brave (or un-scared) enough to publish. As you said, I imagine this would have been a pretty controversial article 10 years ago. Now, it feels almost like a me-too opinion piece from Sanjay Gupta, which is a big enough name on a trending topic for a CNN editor to call it news.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#264

Post by HNJohnC » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #216

kyro wrote: post #191

I'm glad that Gupta has made this public apology. It takes a lot of courage to make that statement especially for someone with great public influence. I'm just curious as to why it took him this long. Medical marijuana has been prescribed in hospitals for some time with great benefit. I mean, just from a clinical standpoint, he should've seen the great upsides and limited downsides to using the drug. Patients, typica…

Being a bit pedantic here, I'd just like to point out that development of schizophrenia is not a mild side effect. With higher THC% strains, we have no idea the extent of latent mental disorders we're stimulating.

Straight out of the misinformation arsenal of the anti drug crowd; in fact there is no evidence that the strongest modern strains are any stronger than the strongest strains available in the 60's.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#265

Post by selectodude » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

deadfall wrote: post #258

codezero wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who grows and unless you are re-selling it to shops, you're unlikely to break even growing your own. The equipment is relatively costly and the care and attention required to consistently grow is very time consuming.

Yes, if you grow indoors you are spending a lot on electricity , but if you grow outdoors during the summer then the cost will be significantly lower. Grow enough to last through the winter. Weed grows in afghanistan in the harshest of climates.

It's called Weed for a reason. However, the stuff you get from a dispensary will have a significantly higher THC count than the stuff you grow in your backyard during the summer.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#266

Post by jlgreco » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 7:00 PM UTC

artagnon wrote: post #252

jlgreco wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, that bottle of vodka can kill a full grown man. That gram of weed? It couldn't even kill a scrawny teenager; not a chance in hell.

Did the original post claim otherwise?

I have not claimed that the original post claimed otherwise.....

I am introducing another point for consideration.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#267

Post by tptacek » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 7:01 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #242

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a bit pedantic here, I'd just like to point out that development of schizophrenia is not a mild side effect. With higher THC% strains, we have no idea the extent of latent mental disorders we're stimulating.

As a person who had a roommate whose schizophrenia was likely induced by heavy marijuana use (along with his tripping on multiple bottles of Robitussin), the fact of the matter is that the harm done to this small percentage of people is vastly outweighed by the damage done to people who can't get access to it for their medical needs. And that's ignoring the huge harm caused by prosecuting recreational users due to an…

The problem is that there are two simultaneous arguments happening.

The first is whether cannabis should be legalized and available as a business opportunity. You'll find very few people here to disagree with about this; there's a practically universal belief that cannabis should be legalized.

The second is whether cannabis is benign. There is a valid discussion to be had about how safe cannabis is. Having it does not imply that anyone thinks cannabis should be outlawed. Trans-fats, tobacco, and sugar are also not benign, and few people jump to the conclusion that critics of those substances are pushing for their prohibition.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#268

Post by penrod » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 7:03 PM UTC

gregpilling wrote: post #51

I am a medical marijuana user. I have fibromyalgia (a catch all label for constant pain), and it helps some with neuropathic pain. My doctor is kept informed about how much I am using, and I have to get my card renewed each year. MJ works, but at best it dulls the pain, and also helps to make the pain less 'front and center' and instead kind of makes it more something that is in the background. I was never a stoner,…

You touch on another way in which drug laws are positively evil - the only reason why Vicodin causes liver damage is because it is legally required to contain a large amount of acetaminophen. The express purpose of the acetaminophen is to permanently damage your liver if you are ever tempted to 'abuse' the Vicodin and exceed the approved dosage.

Of course, with opioid tolerance there is no clear line between therapeutic and recreational dosages, and no way of setting an acetaminophen level that hurts one group of users but not the other, so in practice we have legally mandated poisoning of thousands of chronic pain sufferers.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#269

Post by arbitrage » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 7:04 PM UTC

jmharvey wrote: post #186

Does anyone have statistics on what percentage of "medical marijuana" is actually used for the treatment of medical conditions? The de facto medical marijuana regime in California seems to be that anyone who wants marijuana goes to a doctor, says they're anxious or have trouble sleeping, and gets a card. I'm sure some people with legitimate medical problems get relief from using marijuana, but it seems to be a distin…

What benefit is there to compiling statistics to say that x% of patients have legitimate medical reasons, and y% don't? Trying to exert tight control on this issue has achieved nothing but disaster and failure, at great expense.

There are legitimate medical uses of alcohol, too. A great many people self-medicate, but it does provide them relief.

Investigating the medical science of the drug is important, yes. But perhaps investigation of the socio/psychological reasons is a red herring.

Re: Why I Changed My Mind On Weed

#270

Post by crusso » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 7:05 PM UTC

The interesting part of this article for me is the illumination of the weakness of Science as it's practiced and commissioned by the government today.

For political reasons, the government decided that marijuana was bad - so almost all of the approved research went into confirming that decision. If you'd naively look at the number of papers or scientists who've published the opinion that marijuana is "bad", the evidence would appear overwhelmingly confirmative.