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Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

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Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#71

Post by hobs »

DanBC wrote: post #59
olalonde wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, back to the echo chamber. 4 downvotes and this message disappears. Well, I do need to try occasionally. HN used to be a great site. I'm sorry but this kind of comment is what makes HN worse. From the HN guidelines: "Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downmod you."

Expressing frustration at a sudden bunch of downvotes on a post that shouldn't have been downvoted is understandable. I'm in favour of down voting and I think people should be doing it a lot more on HN, but it is frustrating when reasonable posts are downvoted.

Reasonable posts? I dont even have the power to downvote, but I would if I could, Why? Because first its patronizing, >I really don't get how people can be so naive on HN. Let's talk about Snowden all day and wish we were more like Russia, where it's perfectly ok to say anything you want.

No one said or implied this, simply that russian people were understanding there was something deeply wrong about the situation.

>Sorry guys, but not every one really believes the NSA should be disbanded. They have a real job to do. Certainly there needs to be limits, which we could of course discuss for years on end, but I don't see the point of doing it in a forum that really isn't suitable for the topic.

Nobody said this besides extreme and unthinking people and to suggest it is simply a strawman. Secondly, "I dont feel like talking about it", well then dont click the article and dont submit a comment.

>Ok, back to the echo chamber. 4 downvotes and this message disappears. Well, I do need to try occasionally. HN used to be a great site.

Asking for it.

I hope you can see where people would think this post adds very little to the discussion and in fact is inflammatory in some respects.

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#72

Post by moocowduckquack »

hboon wrote: post #57
simias wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been worse lately, I wish all political debates were banned in this place. IMO HN should be a technical forum first and foremost. There are plenty of places on the internet do discuss politics, this doesn't need to be one of them.

Let's just flag those posts that we think don't belong here.

How about starting by not commenting on posts you aren't interested in.

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#73

Post by dylangs1030 »

D9u wrote: post #10

"In such moments one feels pride with our country and regret over the course taken by United States -- a country betraying the principles it was once built on," Even Russians get it... Why don't more Americans get it?

You're ridiculous. This comment is a spectacular example of the faulty politicizing and black and white mentality being tossed about willy-nilly since the NSA scandal.

First of all - this is not indicative of Russia. This is just one Russian national giving him a job, and his stated reasons in the press may not be the real reasons why.

Second, Russia gave him asylum yes, but instead of echo chambering your preconceived beliefs about the NSA, why don't you apply the same critical skepticism to news coming out of Russia? Why don't you examine why Russia might want to grant asylum to an American refugee like Snowden instead of just saying, "Oh, they just get it man. They get it."

Third, there isn't anything concrete to get - the NSA isn't an evil, demonic institution sent here as a harbinger of the apocalypse. It's an institution whose abuses were wildly exaggerated and need to be corrected, not something to be burned to the ground. The country would not be better off without the agency in its entirety.

You're just applying this naive sense of cops and robbers to the entire dilemma and not critically examining all the evidence/stories. Your bias allows you to over-criticize one side and over-praise the other.

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#74

Post by danenania »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #73
D9u wrote: post #10

"In such moments one feels pride with our country and regret over the course taken by United States -- a country betraying the principles it was once built on," Even Russians get it... Why don't more Americans get it?

You're ridiculous. This comment is a spectacular example of the faulty politicizing and black and white mentality being tossed about willy-nilly since the NSA scandal. First of all - this is not indicative of Russia. This is just one Russian national giving him a job, and his stated reasons in the press may not be the real reasons why. Second, Russia gave him asylum yes, but instead of echo chambering your preconceiv…

Sorry, secretly storing and analyzing the private communications and browsing history of everyone on the planet absolutely is evil. Doesn't matter what the reason is.

If you don't understand this, there is something severely wrong with your moral compass.

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#75

Post by dylangs1030 »

danenania wrote: post #74
dylangs1030 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ridiculous. This comment is a spectacular example of the faulty politicizing and black and white mentality being tossed about willy-nilly since the NSA scandal. First of all - this is not indicative of Russia. This is just one Russian national giving him a job, and his stated reasons in the press may not be the real reasons why. Second, Russia gave him asylum yes, but instead of echo chambering your preconceiv…

Sorry, secretly storing and analyzing the private communications and browsing history of everyone on the planet absolutely is evil. Doesn't matter what the reason is. If you don't understand this, there is something severely wrong with your moral compass.

This is one of the few times I've seen a genuine ad hominem on Hacker News...thank you for attacking my "moral compass" instead of the substance of my argument.

Now, to counter what you said - you're reaching by claiming the NSA "secretly stores and analyzes" the private communications of everyone on the planet. One interpretation of the materials originally leaked purports this, but there is also data contesting this view which is equally valid. Again - the echo chamber and bias allows you to just unilaterally suppose the NSA is capable of retrieving all data everywhere, but you're not examining counter evidence.

X-Keyscore allows email and web content surveillance, yes, but it isn't even practical to mine all data at once - it is much more practical (and probable) that this allows for finding and assembling an entry point to see where you should really begin looking in depth as an NSA analyst[1]. But, no, your traffic is not being viewed universally or entirely without someone at least believing there's a reason.

[1]: http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/jul/31/nsa...

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#76

Post by aurelius83 »

danenania wrote: post #74
dylangs1030 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ridiculous. This comment is a spectacular example of the faulty politicizing and black and white mentality being tossed about willy-nilly since the NSA scandal. First of all - this is not indicative of Russia. This is just one Russian national giving him a job, and his stated reasons in the press may not be the real reasons why. Second, Russia gave him asylum yes, but instead of echo chambering your preconceiv…

Sorry, secretly storing and analyzing the private communications and browsing history of everyone on the planet absolutely is evil. Doesn't matter what the reason is. If you don't understand this, there is something severely wrong with your moral compass.

What exactly is your definition of evil? This seems like such a hyperbolic statement.

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#77

Post by monsterix »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #75
danenania wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, secretly storing and analyzing the private communications and browsing history of everyone on the planet absolutely is evil. Doesn't matter what the reason is. If you don't understand this, there is something severely wrong with your moral compass.

This is one of the few times I've seen a genuine ad hominem on Hacker News...thank you for attacking my "moral compass" instead of the substance of my argument. Now, to counter what you said - you're reaching by claiming the NSA "secretly stores and analyzes" the private communications of everyone on the planet. One interpretation of the materials originally leaked purports this, but there is also data contesting thi…

Not to dissuade or disagree with your thoughts, but your opinion about evilness of this program will change over time. For example, when you get stuck (God forbid) in an unwarranted situation or a legal hassle and then the same NSA program you passively protect now is used to check back on your past data/behavior and then pull out useful subjective information and taint you with phrases like "infamous former contractor" and so on ... Have you thought about this?

Objectivity is a logical illusion.

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#78

Post by moocowduckquack »

simias wrote: post #54
adestefan wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they're correct. HN has always been an echo chamber and the groupthink here is thicker than most places.

It's been worse lately, I wish all political debates were banned in this place. IMO HN should be a technical forum first and foremost. There are plenty of places on the internet do discuss politics, this doesn't need to be one of them.

There is and always has been a massive overlap between technology and politics, especially computer technology.

To try and have a purely technical forum without any politics at all when dealing with the subject of computers, would be to ignore many of the main players and originators and also the motives that led to the existence of much of the technology.

The current news with the NSA is political, sure, but it is also as technical as it gets.

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#79

Post by muyuu »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #75
danenania wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, secretly storing and analyzing the private communications and browsing history of everyone on the planet absolutely is evil. Doesn't matter what the reason is. If you don't understand this, there is something severely wrong with your moral compass.

This is one of the few times I've seen a genuine ad hominem on Hacker News...thank you for attacking my "moral compass" instead of the substance of my argument. Now, to counter what you said - you're reaching by claiming the NSA "secretly stores and analyzes" the private communications of everyone on the planet. One interpretation of the materials originally leaked purports this, but there is also data contesting thi…

SAYS "YOU'RE RIDICULOUS" TO A PREVIOUS POSTER FOR POINTING OUT THE OBVIOUS

WHINES ABOUT BEING THE TARGET OF AN AD HOMINEM ATTACK

Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.

#80

Post by speeder »

sspiff wrote: post #34
melling wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get how people can be so naive on HN. Let's talk about Snowden all day and wish we were more like Russia, where it's perfectly ok to say anything you want. Sorry guys, but not every one really believes the NSA should be disbanded. They have a real job to do. Certainly there needs to be limits, which we could of course discuss for years on end, but I don't see the point of doing it in a forum that reall…

D9u said "even Russians get it", not "the Russians get it", "Russia gets it", or "the Russian government gets it", so I don't think D9u meant to say that the political and social climate in Russia is what we should aspire to. Clearly, if he/she did, he would be poorly informed. Russia's crackdown on LGBT rights, their out-of-proportion prosecution of Pussy Riot and the oppression of opposition are recent markers of h…

Russians said US betrayed their own principles, not Russia principles.

Russians never had a free speech culture, and never cared about it, yes there is some minority that care, but pools there for example.revealed that 78% of the population is very happy with the ban of LGBT speech.

Also if Russian government allowed pussy riot on the street, someone would volunteer to kill them for profaning the church. Their issue is not with their message, but with how they did it.

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