I cannot afford to go back to engineering school • Hacker News Board

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#161

Post by dools » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:04 AM UTC

NamTaf wrote: post #101

The US university loan system is fucked. We have a government-run loan scheme called HECS. You defer your university fees throughout the duration of your studies, apparently no matter how long they last. The programme is not means tested at all, so it is available for every single domestic student studying uni here, no matter what. That loan is then paid back only once you start earning more than a threshold amount o…

Another advantage to paying full fees (and criticism of the HECS system) is that the score required to get into most courses is lower for full fee paying students. This is simply because there is less competition for those places but it does essentially mean that stupid rich kids can get into uni ahead of poor kids who are less stupid.

And not only do we have HECS, but we have Youth Allowance which gives you money while you're studying, to live on.

It's similar to the case described in this article, though: if you earn over a certain amount your Youth Allowance is reduced but it's clearly stated in the rules how it works so most students get jobs at small restaurants where they get paid under the table. Works out pretty well.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#162

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:11 AM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #28

mchannon wrote: post #15

Across this country, this very month, legions of rubes will be getting low-interest student loans to enroll in psychology, general studies, and undecided major degree programs, paying $40k per year, only to drop out shortly thereafter with a huge financial hangover and little ability to pay for it. In contrast, an electrical engineering degree will easily pay for itself, particularly if you've managed to bootstrap yo…

You say with great conviction that EE is the way to go, but with the world being what is is, who can predict the future these days? In the early 2000s a degree in chemistry was considered a safe bet, especially with a biochemistry PhD tacked on. Then there was the 2008 recession, the great round of layoffs at the major pharmcos, combined with the offshoring of early discovery. If anyone says they feel cheated I'm not…

[deleted]

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#163

Post by hga » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:17 AM UTC

bane wrote: post #154

hga wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I brought that sort of scenario up, was told it wasn't an option, although the lower level staffer I talked to wished it was. Perhaps my school took a particularly hard line, I certainly had a few peers who boasted of scams they and their family were running, e.g. borrowing at subsidized rates and getting >20% returns that Carter era inflation allowed them to earn (the government was slow to acknowledge the inflation…

Dunno then. It's exactly what I did. I had to show lots of paperwork, bills in my name, apartment rent payment and cashed rent checks, bank account info etc. But once over that hurdle I was in like Flynn (except I didn't have wealthy parents in the first place).

My school is exceptionally expensive, almost $60K last academic year, and had been historically very bad with their endowment and earning money from inventions, and was one of the post-Civil war ones so didn't it have centuries of compounding donations. Iffy alumni loyalty, particularly for unrestricted donations. In face, tuition was very very highly prized because it was unrestricted....

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#164

Post by danjayh » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:17 AM UTC

dools wrote: post #161

NamTaf wrote: post #101

The US university loan system is fucked. We have a government-run loan scheme called HECS. You defer your university fees throughout the duration of your studies, apparently no matter how long they last. The programme is not means tested at all, so it is available for every single domestic student studying uni here, no matter what. That loan is then paid back only once you start earning more than a threshold amount o…

Another advantage to paying full fees (and criticism of the HECS system) is that the score required to get into most courses is lower for full fee paying students. This is simply because there is less competition for those places but it does essentially mean that stupid rich kids can get into uni ahead of poor kids who are less stupid. And not only do we have HECS, but we have Youth Allowance which gives you money wh…

So you freely admit that most students defraud the system, yet you still consider it the case that it "works out pretty well"?

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#165

Post by hga » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:28 AM UTC

jmilloy wrote: post #160

I don't get it. Why can't you get loans? You don't pay them back while you are in school, and afterwards the minimum cost per month is pretty low. I had full, $16k per term FAFSA support for 12 terms, and then needed one more to finish some things up (poor planning). Federal student loans saw me through. Although, yes, it's immensely frustrating that they take whatever money they can. I spent all the money I saved up…

My school requires the College Board CSS PROFILE, and for one thing, my parents would have never filled it out. I also needed twice that if we assume last academic year's costs; perhaps when the financial aid people I spoke to said I was SOL they meant they couldn't come close to what was required, although by policy the school's financial aid is 100% means tested. I don't remember there even being any pure merit scholarships.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#166

Post by jrokisky » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:29 AM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #108

jrokisky wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would private student loans still be an option in this case?

Are you asking if a bank would loan ~15k to a teenager with no degree and no collateral, so that he/she could maybe get 1/4th of a degree?

I'm wondering what the parent meant when they said that their parents were unwilling to help. Does that mean that they would not cosign for a private loan?

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#167

Post by mgraczyk » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:31 AM UTC

I had a similar experience. After an 8 month internship making ~$30/hr full time I ended up roughly about where I would have been financially had I not done the internship and just stayed in school. I was really upset when I went back to school, but now that I've graduated I look back on it and am just thankful that I was able to spend those 8 months living somewhere new doing something fun. (I would probably feel differently had I been unable to go back to school after the 8 months).

That being said, I think it really is horrifying that our education system rewards those students who stay behind and attend summer school more than those who secure good internships. I've never met a talented developer or engineer who didn't have at least 2 summer internships in undergrad. I have, however, met a ton of shitty engineers who took plenty of summer classes.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#168

Post by hga » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:38 AM UTC

jrokisky wrote: post #166

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you asking if a bank would loan ~15k to a teenager with no degree and no collateral, so that he/she could maybe get 1/4th of a degree?

I'm wondering what the parent meant when they said that their parents were unwilling to help. Does that mean that they would not cosign for a private loan?

If you're referring to me, yes, they totally rejected cosigning a private loan. My school had its own independent program for this, and their credit was not exactly a problem (that year their main band issued them an unsecured note for more than 4 years of the total costs; ironically to set up a computer system, the brand of which I researched and specified as about the last thing I did before going to the university).

A bit more: they were quite determined to make sure none of us graduated from college, with one exception that proved the rule and another than paid her way through a community college level 4 year school, the sort that rents textbooks and was literally on the other side of a creek sharing a border with us. The other 2 of us were more ambitious and ruthlessly crushed.

The system assumes good will on the part of parents, and pretty much has to, to avoid free riders.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#169

Post by fixxer » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:38 AM UTC

tedmiston wrote: post #157

fixxer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets stranger with graduate school. I'm currently a PhD student. I quit a fairly lucrative trading career in 2010 and went back to school without any intention of doing a GRA (I was fine with self-funding; to be honest, I wanted to not have a boss for a while)... that lasted one semester. My adviser realized she liked the idea of paying 1/10 my old salary and getting an actual software engineer on her staff. I'm n…

I've seen others make a comparable choice for the same reason of independence and also for getting out of workplace politics. I'm completing a GRA now, though not self-directed and only for a Master's. Though the stipend is… humble, without it, I wouldn't even have gone to grad school.

Had I known how much bullshit graduate school involved, I might have stuck it out in finance. Might.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#170

Post by gems » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 3:56 AM UTC

I am actually in a similar situation... except I'm in math. I can program though :/.

And by "similar" I mean that I may have to drop out because I cannot afford it. Loans from the government are not enough. Can't get private loans. Can't get money from the parents.