I cannot afford to go back to engineering school • Hacker News Board

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#101

Post by NamTaf » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:08 AM UTC

The US university loan system is fucked.

We have a government-run loan scheme called HECS. You defer your university fees throughout the duration of your studies, apparently no matter how long they last. The programme is not means tested at all, so it is available for every single domestic student studying uni here, no matter what.

That loan is then paid back only once you start earning more than a threshold amount of taxable income (this year, $51,309 - it's not a low income by any stretch) and the payment amount is graduated depending on how much over you earn, from 4% of your income at that threshold amount to 9% once you hit $95,288 or above [1]. There is no real interest charged on the debt - the loan is only indexed to CPI every year, so that the real cost of the loan amount doesn't change. The repayment is treated like tax - either taken out as you earn your wage or squared every year upon doing your tax return.

The perk that rich people get is that if they pay their bill upfront (that is, each semester as they study), they get a 10% discount on the total cost of the tuition for that semester (apparently, off memory it was 25% when I went through about 5-10 years ago). If you put it on HECS, you instead pay the full amount.

Oh, and also for every domestic student, a semester of full-time study costs on the order of $3000-$5000, so a 3 year degree is about $18k-$30k of the above debt [2], depending on what you study. It's heavily subsidised by the government.

The system is funded, in part, by international students, who pay the full fee amounts (no government subsidy) if they choose to study here.

The major criticism of the system is that students can just incur this debt then flee the country. If they earn no taxable income here, they never have to pay it back no matter how much they earn overseas. I can't really think of an easy way to resolve this because it's impossible to garnish income from another country. Nevertheless, the system works reasonably well.

[1]: http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/payingbackmyloan...

[2]: http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/helppayingmyfees...

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#102

Post by praguebakerr » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:08 AM UTC

move to the Germany or to another country in Europe, (almost) free education is still huge benefit when you compare it with states

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#103

Post by solistice » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:11 AM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #50

There should be a way for companies to invest in promising interns, paying some of their tuition costs in exchange for a certain number of years employment with the company afterwards. While this wouldn't work for many fields, it would certainly help in cases like this (and tech in general). It would seem that with as much as companies pay for head-hunters and recruiters (and how much they whine about the lack of qua…

Referring to my post above, excluding the obligation to work additional years, a similar system is in place in Germany. Of course American tuition fees seem to make it infeasible.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#104

Post by ohazi » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:12 AM UTC

muzz wrote: post #75

baddox wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget parents with modest incomes but a lot of savings from planning their own retirement. That's the reason I didn't get any financial aid (other than some subsidized loans to cover part of my costs).

Retirement accounts don't affect financial aid, they are not even asked for on the FAFSA. Only if they had savings in a non-retirement account-- where they could use it for things other than retirement-- it would affect your financial aid.

This annoys the hell out of me. "Retirement account" here is a tax deferred account like a 401k or an IRA, right? There are limits to how much you can put into accounts like these, and in today's world it can be difficult to adequately fund a comfortable retirement on these savings alone.

If you make a modest income but are careful about your spending, it's not unreasonable to have leftover after-tax money that you can invest in other ways. That doesn't mean it somehow ceases to be retirement money.

> where they could use it for things other than retirement

Retirement isn't some thing you just go to the store and buy. There's no clear split between buying goods and services that are "retirement things" and "non retirement things."

Some people retire by quitting their job once they reach some magic number in an account, and then hope that they die before their balance goes to zero. This is increasingly harder to do if you don't want to be working past 70.

The age threshold for withdrawal from some of these tax deferred accounts can be a significant hindrance if you plan to fund your retirement in other ways such as by buying a rental property. You don't want to be buying the property at 60, you want to have already bought it, done maintenance, allowed it to depreciate a bit, etc. so that you can actually make a reasonable profit by the time you're 60.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#105

Post by _delirium » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:12 AM UTC

praguebakerr wrote: post #102

move to the Germany or to another country in Europe, (almost) free education is still huge benefit when you compare it with states

Scandinavia is a possibility, since there are many degree programs in English. Germany is a fine choice too, but only if your German is sufficient to do coursework at a university level in that language; English options are more limited.

However not all programs will be free if you come from outside the EU.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#106

Post by applecore » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:13 AM UTC

NamTaf wrote: post #101

The US university loan system is fucked. We have a government-run loan scheme called HECS. You defer your university fees throughout the duration of your studies, apparently no matter how long they last. The programme is not means tested at all, so it is available for every single domestic student studying uni here, no matter what. That loan is then paid back only once you start earning more than a threshold amount o…

The U.S. has a really helpful student loan repayment program — and no one's using it:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-07/the-u-dot-s-...

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#107

Post by nilkn » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:20 AM UTC

tazzy531 wrote: post #22

>>"Students should be warned that doing a paid internship can negatively impact your ability to finish up paying for school." Students should be warned that crossing the highway blindfolded if unsafe. Students should be warned that the stove could be hot if you leave it on. At some point, people need to take personal responsibility for their action. They need to understand how their actions effect them positively or…

The fact that one could get hit by a car crossing a highway blindfolded is obvious.

The fact that earning money in college could negatively impact your ability to pay for college is not obvious.

The warning is justified. Many people would not anticipate this.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#108

Post by fnordfnordfnord » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:23 AM UTC

jrokisky wrote: post #68

hga wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there still a screw case for "kids from wealthier families" when the families refuse to help? At least during the '80s, I was told I was ineligible for any financial aid.

Would private student loans still be an option in this case?

Are you asking if a bank would loan ~15k to a teenager with no degree and no collateral, so that he/she could maybe get 1/4th of a degree?

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#109

Post by bane » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:24 AM UTC

hga wrote: post #33

rayiner wrote: post #14

I agree with the ultimate sentiment, which is that it's generally inadvisable to try and pay your way through school these days. The federal government will let you and your parents borrow as much as you need to pay for school, and you'll make more money after you finish your degree, so your efforts are better spent trying to finish in as few semesters as possible to minimize the amount of money you need to borrow in…

Is there still a screw case for "kids from wealthier families" when the families refuse to help? At least during the '80s, I was told I was ineligible for any financial aid.

Declare yourself independent, move out, get a part-time job, remove yourself as a dependent from your parents taxes, etc. etc. Now you are the income source for your own education expenses, and if you don't make that much money should be eligible for all kinds of wonderful tuition assistance programs. If the school asks, just say you have a terrible relationship with your parents and are estranged from them.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#110

Post by jamesaguilar » Thu, Aug 08, 2013, 1:25 AM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #45

hga wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there still a screw case for "kids from wealthier families" when the families refuse to help? At least during the '80s, I was told I was ineligible for any financial aid.

Yep. If your parents are wealthy and don't want to help you, you are most definitely not going to a high-end school, not even a state flagship. At that point community college is the only reasonable option (because it's actually possible to earn enough without the degree to cover the cost). You couldn't really have it any other way without drastically altering the structure of higher education: the alternative is tha…

http://www.sfa.ufl.edu/basics/cost-of-attendance/

The incremental cost of going to school versus "just" living is like $6000. Even the child of a rich parent with no financial aid should be able to pull that together, especially if you manage to swing any scholarship money.