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I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

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Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#81
Are you a US citizen? If so, write your Congressman. Write the rep for the University's district, your home town rep, and the senators of both states. Make the letter one page, and attach a narrative with the gory details and figures. Give them details on how to contact the financial aid office, the dean's office, and any student ombudsman.

The idea here is to capture attention (short, punchy letter), provide all the ammunition a staffer needs to make a phone call asking what the hell is going on (the attachments), and the targeting information.

Send 'em hard copy, to both the DC and the local district office. Wait two days, send an email. Wait a day and call, asking to speak with someone in reference to same. You won't get the Congressman, of course, but if you get a competent staffer they'll know how to look into the matter and make people uncomfortable enough to do better. Get someone who's worked in the district a few years and they probably play tennis with someone at the University.

These offices are heavily dedicated to constituent service. If you get their attention and make it easy for them to investigate, some staffer will pick this as a lay-up "good deed for the day."

Congress doesn't have jurisdiction, of course, but any public institution steps to when the office calls. They'll pay attention, and they may very well look harder for some discretion to fix this.

The overall system is, of course, stupid. That won't get any better, it's a set of compromises among reasonable sounding concerns that have amounted to a Kafka-esque impossibility. But there is a lot of discretion in the joints -- if you can make someone notice this particular glitch, it might get fixed.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#82

Across this country, this very month, legions of rubes will be getting low-interest student loans to enroll in psychology, general studies, and undecided major degree programs, paying $40k per year, only to drop out shortly thereafter with a huge financial hangover and little ability to pay for it. In contrast, an electrical engineering degree will easily pay for itself, particularly if you've managed to bootstrap yo…

You can't borrow enough to pay for tuition at many schools using federal loans as an undergraduate student. Stafford loans have a maximum borrowing limit of $12,500 per year, and 4% of that goes to origination fees, leaving $12,000 for tuition, less if you're a freshman or sophomore:

http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized...

That's not enough for many state schools, and definitely not enough for private schools:

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-gradu...

The only way to get private loans is to have a creditworthy cosigner. Otherwise, you need parents to take out Parent PLUS loans to cover the remainder.

I assume the person here was paying for tuition with a combination of school-provided need-based grants and Stafford loans. Now that the need-based aid has been cut because her Expected Family Contribution has gone up due to her paid internship, she can no longer get enough money to pay the full tuition.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#83
post #14

I agree with the ultimate sentiment, which is that it's generally inadvisable to try and pay your way through school these days. The federal government will let you and your parents borrow as much as you need to pay for school, and you'll make more money after you finish your degree, so your efforts are better spent trying to finish in as few semesters as possible to minimize the amount of money you need to borrow in…

as a general matter, people who came from wealthier backgrounds are much less afraid of debt and leverage.

True, the debt seems a lot smaller in that context. I'm (very slightly) optimistic that the new rules which cap student loan payments as a % of income and also subsidize public service work will make this burden a little lighter and less intimidating.

But at bottom, it's still a terrible problem. Not everyone is a financial wizard, and after an unpleasant brush with debt as a youth I've been largely allergic to it since. It's disappointing that people who want to take a fiscally conservative approach and pay up front or as they go are finding that becoming ever more impractical, thereby limiting their economic opportunity and productivity. Although many schools offer scholarships and suchlike, they're far from transparent.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#84
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there still a screw case for "kids from wealthier families" when the families refuse to help? At least during the '80s, I was told I was ineligible for any financial aid.

Yep. If your parents are wealthy and don't want to help you, you are most definitely not going to a high-end school, not even a state flagship. At that point community college is the only reasonable option (because it's actually possible to earn enough without the degree to cover the cost). You couldn't really have it any other way without drastically altering the structure of higher education: the alternative is tha…

I think your analysis is mostly correct, but it leaves out the option of really hustling for scholarship money.

My good friend from high school was in a position of not being able to afford our flagship state school, even though he got accepted.

He basically made it his full time job to scour all of the scholarship websites and apply to everything he was even minimally eligible for. He was constantly writing, or altering essays to fit a particular scholarship prompt.

All in all, he was able to afford school and has since graduated and become a pharmacist.

Like in a lot of things, hard work and hustle pays off.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#85
Have you looked to a bank or p2p lender?

The purpose of the student loan system to help extend credit to people who are otherwise less creditworthy. It's not a perfect system but it sorta works. In your case, you said you maxed out your credit cards. Presumably you managed your credit effectively aside from that, and then paid it off. If so, your Fico score should be high enough to qualify for a loan outside the federal student loan guarantee program.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#86

This is broken, and it shouldn't be this way. There are far too many broken bureaucracies in modern society, both governmental and corporate. And most of these impede those with the fewest resources or capabilities to work around them. Just because we've been trained to think that government or corporate policy is supposed to be complex and broken, doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve. Without a ridiculously…

The flip side to this is I know someone who went through the legal steps to have their parents money not be counted as theirs and got huge scholarships. Trick: Their parents still supported him and were worth about 100 million. So he got a nice Mercedes(2 actually, he crashed one) and cheap college. It's a flawed system, but simply not counting your parents money is an even more flawed system.

IMHO, it's far more of an error that those without privilege/money are denied access to education than those with privilege/money get an undeserved benefit.

This doesn't just affect the individual, it affects all of us who are trying to hire good engineers. The smaller the number of people that are allowed to attempt an engineering degree, the fewer that will earn them. Every single potential engineer that is prevented from entering the field because of education hinders us.

Trying to bring this back to HN a bit more, I think that entrepreneurs and capitalists should realize (and you may already be on the same page with me) that they are in essence farming society; they are leveraging and multiplying the work and efforts of many others in order to enrich their own wealth and the wealth of others. The more fertile the soil, the more the entrepreneur can grow. For technology based capitalists, a more educated society provides far more fertile soil both in terms of workforce and potential customer base.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#87

I can't afford to go back to school, even though I desperately want to for CS because I have $120,000 in debt from law school. Absolutely hate law and going to LS was the biggest mistake of my life.

CS is one of the easiest subjects to learn on your own for free. Have you tried pursuing it this way? (eg. using Zed Shaw's free books, for example)

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#89
My parents didn't help me either, but I had absolutely no problem with tuition. And it wasn't because I paid it off after every semester.

Why not just take out loans and go to a state school? I went to a good engineering state school in New York and many of my classmates got excellent jobs after that. The tuition is only $5k per year. Total tuition and other expenses can be easily paid off within a couple of years with an engineering job. The interest rate is only like 5% for people with OK credit.

Regarding credit cards: It definitely does not make sense to use credit cards to pay for tuition, because the APR is very high compared to student loans.

Edit: Regarding the amount you can take out in private loans: Discover lets you take out like 50k per semeseter. This is way more than enough.

Re: I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

#90
post #70

Hey, at least you're not $250k in the hole with an incredibly low 7% interest rate, at the age of 26! What do you all think about a Kickstarter for student loans? I'm looking for $300k in investment or to validate my idea by raising $300k through the service.

I like the idea. Money up front now, for a percentage of your future earnings.
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