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Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

pinknews.co.uk

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Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#51

Post by alexakarpov »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #36
alexakarpov wrote: post #23

(Russian here) - Fry is 100% correct in his assessment. I pay a lot of attention to the wickedness of Russian politics, and, quite frankly, LBGTQ are right there at the very edge of Russian political struggle, being one of the very few groups whose very survival demands liberty (others may get by through kowtowing to the political powers, but they don't have that option). They are hated by an overwhelming majority of…

I can't believe no one is talking about how this all relates to revelations from the US state department cable leaks. The cables showed that the US State Department is actively involved in advancing anti-traditionalist groups in many countries. One of the cables went on quite a bit about how greater efforts are needed in France to promote multiculturalism and homosexual acceptance because so much of the nation remain…

Do understand, that no "traditionalist values" can contradict the principle of liberty. People should be free to follow whatever values they want to follow. Heck, I'm an ultra-traditionalist Orthodox Christian, and I consider Pussy Riot to be the best thing that happened to Russia in decades. I chose my traditionalism freely - there can be no real traditionalism without freedom, only slavery and deformity.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#52

Post by guard-of-terra »

tehwalrus wrote: post #41
runn1ng wrote: post #10

There was an olympics in Beijing . So holding the olympics committee to some democratic standard probably won't work.

China doesn't have civil rights laws to protect homosexuals, but it has made it explicitly legal (1997), and removed it from lists of "mental illnesses" (2001)[1]. I'm aware it isn't a democracy, but it doesn't appear to sanction official discrimination in the same way as Russia on this issue. If you look at the rest of [1], you'll see it also has a long history of (debatable) tolerance for homosexuality. (I am aware…

Russia made it explicitly legal around 1992, after the fall of USSR.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#53

Post by mladenkovacevic »

There is quite a leap from Russian anti gay propaganda laws to boycotting the Olympics. Many people would argue that laws supporting any kind of torture or the death penalty are human rights abuses so should any and all countries practicing those laws be forbidden from partaking in or hosting something so arbitrary as the Olympics?

I'm not arguing that this wouldn't be an effective way to get the Russian government to go back on some of the recent legislation, but then why stop there? Can we use this tactic to stop drone attacks, decriminalize marijuana and improve women's rights in many countries?

No we can't. Because this isn't a genuine movement designed to change Russian public opinion and laws, but a simple us=enlightened you=backwards monsters campaign.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#54

Post by neurotixz »

harrytuttle wrote: post #2

I think for the first time in history, this article committed suicide under the terms of Godwin's law before it was even navigated to. More seriously, this is standard practice: label the enemy, even if it's wrong or you created the label yourself.

For the first time in my life, I disagree that Godwin Law's could be applied in this case.

It is truly a sad day and and it really shows the incredibly wrong state of affairs in Russia when comparisons to Hitler are actually justified. In this case the parallels with the situation an the state of affairs in pre-war Germany cannot be denied. It shows the same willingness to create two classes of citizen, and the withdrawal of the rights of that second-class.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#55

Post by mones »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #9

At the risk of sounding insensitive (I'm not), I'd like to make a reminder that Hitler persecuted Jews and homosexuals alike...the Jews were a priority for him, but he had infrastructure dedicated to several groups. More importantly, because this article doesn't really cite much except for Stephen Fry's word, I'd like to here highlight that it's very much factual and well-documented, so as to remove doubt: http://en.…

Why do you use 'gay' as a category? It's not, and categorizing people with a level of same-sex-attraction is insensitive.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#56

Post by ihsw »

ronaldx wrote: post #30
ihsw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, Nazi Germany didn't arrest Jesse Owens upon arrival to the country. Russia has made it clear that they will not afford the same freedom to gays and lesbians, or more to the point they plan on arresting them immediately upon arrival.

Do you have a source for that? I agree there is not a nice atmosphere (as there wasn't for Owens), but your suggestion that athletes will be arrested on arrival is simply not evident. Minister Vitaly Mutko... " No one is forbidding an athlete with non-traditional sexual orientation from coming to Sochi , but if he goes onto the street and starts propagandizing it, then of course he will be held accountable" In any ca…

> If a law has been approved by the federal legislature and signed by the president, then the government has no right to suspend it. It doesn't have the authority.

Vitaly was interviewed once again, recently.

Take your pick:

http://www.ibtimes.com/george-takei-move-2014-winter-olympic...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/russia-anti-gay-oly...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-lawmaker-suggest...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/russia-anti-gay-laws-2014-...

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#57

Post by pandaman »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #49
pandaman wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And most Russians are rednecks? Well, I guess racism is okay when it's for the left cause.

Yeah, they are. There is this notion that USA has liberal coasts and (racist, intolerant, preaching) flyover hearland. Guess what, Russia is very similar but doesn't really have any coasts. It's just rednecks all the way down. The world is 'gopniki'.

Funny that you mention this in this topic. One of the characters mentioned in the title had very similar idea of the composition of Russia.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#58

Post by alexakarpov »

ronaldx wrote: post #50
alexakarpov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

..and that's why Fry mentions that: "The idea that sport and politics don’t connect is worse than disingenuous, worse than stupid. It is wickedly, wilfully wrong. Everyone knows politics interconnects with everything for “politics” is simply the Greek for “to do with the people”.

OK, yes, it's this attitude which I was disagreeing with: Sports and politics may be innately interconnected, but that doesn't mean we should seek to make sports even more political. To have a requirement that the Olympics is hosted only in countries with political approval by [Stephen Fry/Western cultural values] would prevent it from having any global influence. Should the Olympics ultimately alternate between the…

"Make sports even more political" -- this is our disagreement, yes. You think sports and politics are somehow 'independent things' -- but they aren't. Best parallel would be: money and wealth and private property and capital and production are all connected. Communists said they really aren't, and should be made 'less connected' - somehow, they want to have production without everything else. Well, we all know it doesn't work this way. Same here -- you can't artificially disconnect 'politics' from 'sport'. It will remain connected... because it is connected!

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#60

Post by GotAnyMegadeth »

jorgecastillo wrote: post #37

I think some people become very indignant about this issue only because it's Russia. I don't see that much indignation at other nations that treat non heterosexual people worst. Other nations whose treatment of women and religious minorities can't not but be called barbarous. Some of whom are close allies of the USA. I personally see no problem with how other nations manage their internal affairs, as long as they kee…

> I personally see no problem with how other nations manage their internal affairs, as long as they keep to themselves.

Really?

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