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Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

theguardian.com

251–260 of 272 posts

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least some animal product is necessary (e.g., dairy or eggs). See: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html Vegetarians can go ahead and argue that vegans are too extreme while vegans fire back that vegetarians are just vegans who lack commitment.

I am vegan and have been for about a year and a half. Animal products are not necessary for a healthy diet. That goes for adults and infants. http://www.veganoutreach.org/enewsletter/20070523.html Crown Shakur did die because he parents didn't supply him with adequate nutrition, but there's no reason he couldn't have gotten what he needed on a vegan diet. Plenty of children are raised on a 100% vegan diet and thrive…

>Plenty of children are raised on a 100% vegan diet and thrive just like children fed with animal products. //

Citation? The only children I know [that I can recall] that are brought up in vegetarianism are noticeably "weedy". Shorter than average, low muscle tone, paler skin than their peers. That's completely anecdotal and a very small sample but it informs my demand to see your support for this claim.

Now it's probably quite possible to create a vegan diet with all required nutrients a child needs; but how practical is that and does it happen.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and he is spot on with artificial meat. The artificial meat impact on our civilization will be comparable with that of beginning of meat eating by apes 2M years ago. Once more nutritious than natural, the artificial meat will allow to overcome the current energy limitation on our brain. Once artificial meat becomes mainstream and eating natural meat become obsolete, the human race will be able to overcome obsolete co…

> Once more nutritious than natural, the artificial meat will allow to overcome the current energy limitation on our brain. I think you could rather drink a mixture of a protein, vitamin, oil, enzymes, etc, shake today - and get the same effects, than wait for your enhanced meat product. The energy limitation was also a leap, when apes (or whatever) started eating meat, and later humans (or whatever) started using fi…

>And even then, you'd have to wait for evolution to take its course and produce (well, perpetuate) whatever DNA is required to produce a bigger brain over a millennium or even longer...

the previous 2M were spent on this extensive option - increasing the size (that was enabled by meat eating), and i think we pretty much exhausted that venue. The next step is increasing the intensity of using that big brain. We use only small portion of it, and prolonged sustained thinking activities are very exhausting to our bodies in particular because it consumes a lot of energy. Evolutionary biological changes increasing brain efficiency would take long time (btw, it is very educational to read about specifics of Enstein's brain). This is why in historical short term only increasing of energy intake seems to be a viable option.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#254
post #107

Mostly carnivorous guy here; I have started playing around with the use of tofu and mushrooms in stead of meat and have come to the realization that it is actually a lot easier to substitute them for meat. Another, even bigger realization I have come to is that it seems that my addiction, yes, addiction, to meat and meat having to be a minimum requirement for having any interest in a dish, is that it is really a psyc…

It depends a lot on the quality of the meat. The quality of factory-farmed meat is low, but that doesn't mean it's bad to eat lots of wild salmon and grass-fed beef.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#255
post #97

I can't wait to see the cognitive dissonance from the "natural" people. On one hand, it could quite possibly replace factory farming and eliminate a huge amount of waste, pollution, and animal cruelty. On the other hand, it's GMO. I love seeing True Believers in Movementarianism squirm. I'm equal opportunity here. I like pointing out the philosophical inconsistencies of dogmatic positivism to your typical Reddit /r/a…

Why are you assuming that meat consumption is necessary?

I enjoy eating meat. Deal with it.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#256
post #205
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bull. Shit. My wife is a vegetarian. I've tried probably 8-10 different brands of vegie burgers and chicken nuggets. They don't taste even remotely like meat. Some do taste alright, I admit. Another problem is price. You would think soy products would be cheaper than meat. Nope. So freaking expensive.

I'm not saying they taste like meat. Be nice. There are plenty of delicious alternatives but unfortunately they're not at the grocery store, they're usually made by you in your kitchen. That's worth addressing.. but fake meat? no.

Yes, you offered them as an alternative to meat. You didn't offer ice cream or mashed potatoes.

Nobody denies there are tasty non-meat things out there, but we're discussing meat and its alternatives.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#257
post #63

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Well, as long as they make it clear on the label that their "hamburger" or "sausage" product is made from lab-meat, not real meat, I'm all for it.

Why? That's the same as labeling food made with GMOs. If there's no provable difference between the two, putting it on the label is just spreading FUD about the product.

Mostly for vegetarians like me. If I knew that no animal had to be killed for my burger, I'd consider buying it.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#258
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When researching lab-made, I found them to be 70% - 80% of the cost of nats across the board. My jeweler told me that (at least for the brand he carried) DeBeers bought the company that had the technology and patents for creating them in the lab, and thus the prices will remain close to nats as they will not set them at a point where they erode pricing on nats. Based off my research, if the poster above you got his/h…

Actually it's not a humane alternative. The profits from the lab-made diamonds flow into the holding company owning all those mines. The prices would be a lot lower if not for the identical owners. While I normally try not to judge corporations, DeBeers looks, to me at least, like the ultimate prototype for "evil monopolist manipulating the masses".

>The profits from the lab-made diamonds flow into the holding company owning all those mines.

I considered this too, but then I thought of buying a stone from another company, but realized that paying the same inflated prices for an essentially worthless (worth less anyway) rock would still contribute to keeping the margins and profits up for DeBeers and/or any company that might engage in questionable practices, then I thought about buying a non-diamond, but found that most semi-precious stones for sale were still offered by companies that also traded in diamonds.

To be honest, it was a bit exhausting (especially combined with the planning of a wedding). I just chose to draw the line at buying a stone that was created in a laboratory and not pulled from the Earth by a slave.

I would not be honest if I didn't admit that cultural expectations also came to bear on the decision not to just do something completely different.

I take your point. I feel like this is one of those areas where my purchase decisions could change drastically the more educated I become on the subject of the precious stones trade. Just in the span of buying the engagement ring to the wedding band, we decided to have zero stones of any sort on the wedding band itself.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with supply of soybeans so high my suspicion is that low demand causes soybean product prices to be high. High supply and low demand are both factors that lead to low prices, not high prices.

In Econ 101, yes. As I said, "Since soybeans are not the primary crop but are grown relatively in proportion to massively overproduce corn, I would expect soybeans to be pretty damn cheap" . Soybeans are not soybean products though, and a high supply of soybeans doesn't mean that soybean product prices should be low. I posit that there is a low supply of soy-products caused by a low-demand for soy-products. Only a fr…

The issue then isn't low demand and high supply, it's low elasticity of demand and, for human food products, low supply. The original cited factors were irrelevant at best.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#260
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, your opinion just isn't based in fact.

My opinion is based on the current US farm labor situation and the general history of mankind that saw hunter-gatherers forcibly displace agricultural civilizations throughout the Middle Ages followed by massive migration to cities since th Industrial Revolution. Your opinion is based on what facts exactly?

The displacement caused by industrialization and imperialism, and the economies they foster, is not a situation in which enfranchised working class people are making informed decisions about their future, freely choose their lot, and draw from the public resources managed by their benevolent representative governments.

It wasn't the case then, and it isn't the case now.

The fact is that industrialized agriculture represents a massive centralization of the production of a basic necessity of life. It is made to be perceived to be less inexpensive through subsidies on low-nutrition crops such as corn, sugar, and wheat, subsidies for import and export, state-funded research into literal Frankenstein's monsters built of corn, fish, and insect genes. Patents for the basic building blocks of life are issued and violations enforced, even cases of accidental spread of these genes by wind. Pollutants and hormones abound.

And what do we get? Lower nutrition when picked, lower nutrition because of shipping and storage, insecticides, hormones, anti-biotics, factory meat and egg production that makes a mockery of animal life, runoff that poisons our water supply and wildlife.

What is good about subsidizing junk crops? What is good about subsidizing the fuel used to ship food across the world when it can be grown literally in one's backyard? What if we funded robotics and technology for small agriculture instead of drones that kill Pakistani civilians and children? What is good about the conflation of money and value, to the point where money is lauded over health and freedom?

Your premise seems to be that people have decided they want industrialized agriculture because farming "sucks." To you this seems to imply that therefore industrialized agriculture is good and that there are not alternatives. We will and should become more and more materialistic, inert, disconnected from family and nature, because what people want must be good. We are not being manipulated by world government systems that have their own benefit at heart.

I reject this premise wholeheartedly.

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