The myth of America's missing software engineers • Hacker News Board

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#121

Post by dylangs1030 » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:00 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #78

krainboltgreene wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they could "locate" the engineers, that doesn't mean the engineers will want to work for the companies paying.

Who would rather stay unemployed than take an engineering job?

A successful technical consultant who makes double what any company could reasonably offer him save the largest. True, this isn't technically "unemployed" but they're practically the same thing - not owned by a competitor, and hirable if you can seduce them.

SaaS and tech consulting are really trendy right now because there are a lot of successful role models for these things. That said, a lot of magnificent failures and wannabes...but that comes with anything.

Add to this the fact that the companies who really understand how valuable good, skilled engineers are will make generous offers with benefits and vacations and conferences and food and luxury and and and...and you see why it becomes difficult to find the really sexy workers.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#122

Post by bayesianhorse » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:01 PM UTC

CleanedStar wrote: post #75

hga wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that in this field of "engineering" you become unemployable for conventional salaried positions at around age 35-40, it's a less debatable point than you're positing, I think.

Absolutely. Several years ago I was at a company and we were hiring for a position. One guy came in, who was maybe in his mid-50s. His technical skills were excellent, he could answer any question thrown at him in detail. Aside from that he was a normal, genial guy with a solid resume - we has passed on another guy with good tech knowledge but who did not act normal. I was desperate to have the position filled as peo…

I don't believe in the "labor shortage should result in higher wages" argument. Usually we are talking about a baseline. If companies believed, they could make more profit by doubling the salary and thus maybe attracting more talent, they would do so.

Supply/demand is all the economics most people understand. But it's not just about the labor market, but what the company is doing with the labor.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#123

Post by dylangs1030 » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:02 PM UTC

FedRegister wrote: post #74

zeteo wrote: post #15

My company (which, according to Glassdoor, is paying above-average tech salaries) recently started offering ~$100 per lead for software engineering referrals. If the person ends up being hired, their referrer also gets a ~$2000 bonus. A recruiting firm that can truly locate these missing engineers would be making a killing in the marketplace right now.

Part of the problem is that the salaries are just too damn low right now. If you offer a competitive or even above-average salary that's _livable_ in the Bay Area then talent will beat a path to your door. Try to lowball or meet other offers and you'll be stuck without candidates.

I'm really interested in this. As a New Yorker, I don't find this principle. Is it superbly difficult to commute to the Bay Area from a less urban surrounding? In New York City, if you don't have the money to pay for an urban apartment you can live in the Bronx or Westchester and easily commute to the city.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#124

Post by bayesianhorse » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:06 PM UTC

nobodysfool wrote: post #64

evgen wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will be renting, not buying. This means that they monthly housing cost differential will be more than made up for in the salary differential. The sad fact is that if you are not in the top slice of a particular subfield you are not going to be getting telecommuting options unless you get very lucky: by being in Missouri you both limit your opportunity to find the lucky break and limit your ability to get into the…

>You will be renting, not buying. Exactly why the OP won't choose to move there. Why should he have to pay someone the privilege of living, and get none of that money back when/if they decide to leave? At least when you buy you get some equity.

Because renting is more flexible and often less expensive...

Imagine you loose your job in a crisis, you have to move/sell your house in a crashing market.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#125

Post by dylangs1030 » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:06 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #17

"Qualified applicants" takes on a different meaning if you're looking for someone to crank out a CRUD app or write operating system kernels. For example, we've been looking for an entry-level web developer for almost a year. They actually put "computer science degree" and "2 years experience" on the job ad. We found a pretty smart kid with an associates that blew the interview by mentioning he kept up with industry t…

I'm sorry...what? He blew an interview by mentioning he follows industry trends on reddit?

Okay, I can understand being disappointed in hearing that because you don't like reddit and would wish for a better source (opinion), but even then I can't imagine acting on something so...trivial.

That's like me mentioning to a company I'm interviewing with that I like to browse my smartphone to keep up with feeds. Whoops, no job for me, I might dick around on my phone instead of helping clients.

I mean seriously? Is that the real reason why he screwed up the interview? Holy hell...

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#126

Post by dylangs1030 » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:10 PM UTC

fader wrote: post #93

BillyMaize wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entry level with two years of experience?? I'd hope that isn't very strict or basically no one would be able to apply for the job meeting the requirements unless internships count, and even then you usually get like 1.5 years of experience that way.

"Entry level" in the US now means 3-5 years of experience. You're expected to work those years for free (as an "intern") to get the experience.

I don't mean to be snarky, but how are internships free in the technical fields? Low paid perhaps, but free internships for tech grads is a thing?

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#127

Post by FedRegister » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:28 PM UTC

dylangs1030 wrote: post #123

FedRegister wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that the salaries are just too damn low right now. If you offer a competitive or even above-average salary that's _livable_ in the Bay Area then talent will beat a path to your door. Try to lowball or meet other offers and you'll be stuck without candidates.

I'm really interested in this. As a New Yorker, I don't find this principle. Is it superbly difficult to commute to the Bay Area from a less urban surrounding? In New York City, if you don't have the money to pay for an urban apartment you can live in the Bronx or Westchester and easily commute to the city.

If you expect talent to work crunch hours and give mind, body, and soul unquestionably then do you really think, at the end of the day, they should have to schlep out the suburbs because your stingy ass doesn't want to pay a living wage for the Bay Area? Even if that were the case, in order to qualify for the H-1B there have to be no qualified candidates in the US which means either you are doing something nobody is doing (unlikely) our your wage is too low for your market, even in the suburbs.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#128

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:29 PM UTC

dylangs1030 wrote: post #123

FedRegister wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that the salaries are just too damn low right now. If you offer a competitive or even above-average salary that's _livable_ in the Bay Area then talent will beat a path to your door. Try to lowball or meet other offers and you'll be stuck without candidates.

I'm really interested in this. As a New Yorker, I don't find this principle. Is it superbly difficult to commute to the Bay Area from a less urban surrounding? In New York City, if you don't have the money to pay for an urban apartment you can live in the Bronx or Westchester and easily commute to the city.

[deleted]

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#129

Post by rayiner » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:59 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #114

geebee wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're required to be upset about it. In fact, your honesty is very refreshing. No CEO lobbying for this bill would ever openly state that this program dramatically reduces wages for US citizens, but that they don't care because they view US citizenship as a meaningless invisible line.

So the plan is to appeal to rank nationalism? I suggest any lobbying group that's formed concentrate its ad dollars on Fox News.

The idea that representatives should care about the prosperity of people who aren't their constituents strikes at the very heart of republican democracy.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#130

Post by droithomme » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 11:14 PM UTC

zeteo wrote: post #15

My company (which, according to Glassdoor, is paying above-average tech salaries) recently started offering ~$100 per lead for software engineering referrals. If the person ends up being hired, their referrer also gets a ~$2000 bonus. A recruiting firm that can truly locate these missing engineers would be making a killing in the marketplace right now.

Please state the salary range you offer, your metro area, and whether you pay all interviewing expenses for the candidate (economy airfare and accommodation in your city), and full relocation expenses. Only then can we begin the process of evaluating whether your inability to hire is due to lack of talent availability, or if it is due to other factors.