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Ask HN: What is the big idea with algorithms?

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Re: Ask HN: What is the big idea with algorithms?

#21

Post by carterschonwald »

TriinT wrote: post #19
mnemonicsloth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a math whiz kid? I know there are a few professional mathematicians here -- professors, post-docs, etc. ...not a math forum like AoPS AoPS seems to be about math competitions. Math competitions have about as much in common with real math as the space marines from DOOM (demons, plasma guns) have in common with real marines (marching, painting stuff, acronyms). Real math is about building theories that are as g…

I agree with everything you wrote. However, it seems to me that AoPS is populated with math enthusiasts, while HN is populated with hackers. AoPS is indeed mostly about math competitions, and yes, math competitions have little to do with real math, but just count the number of great mathematicians who performed amazingly well in the IMO: Terry Tao, Misha Gromov, Grisha Perelman, etc. My point was not that AoPS is abo…

choose any difficult profession and any highschool or college level competition, you can exhibit people who did well in both, does that mean one is the predictor of the other? I don't think so.

Re: Ask HN: What is the big idea with algorithms?

#22

Post by mlLK »

niels_olson wrote: post #20
pookleblinky wrote: post #10

http://artemis.cs.yale.edu/classes/cs460/Spring98/contents.h... is a very good resource on the parent science of algorithmic information theory. AIT and computational complexity theory arguably underlay all other sciences. They allow us to define randomness ( http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~chaitin/georgia.html ), pattern, probability ( http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Algorithmic_probability ), inference ( http://w…

References and a sincere, open answer. You deserve a lot more karma than the sophomorish comment currently leading the thread.

No kidding, this answer is as nearly loaded as my question.

Re: Ask HN: What is the big idea with algorithms?

#23

Post by TriinT »

carterschonwald wrote: post #21
TriinT wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you wrote. However, it seems to me that AoPS is populated with math enthusiasts, while HN is populated with hackers. AoPS is indeed mostly about math competitions, and yes, math competitions have little to do with real math, but just count the number of great mathematicians who performed amazingly well in the IMO: Terry Tao, Misha Gromov, Grisha Perelman, etc. My point was not that AoPS is abo…

choose any difficult profession and any highschool or college level competition, you can exhibit people who did well in both, does that mean one is the predictor of the other? I don't think so.

That's quite true. I try not to fall under the spell of the selectivity bias.

I know a bunch of math grad students who competed in the IMO and the Putnam, and I know another (smaller) bunch of math grad students who despize math competitions. It's a matter of personality, I guess. Some are problem solvers, other are theory builders. We need both.

All in all, the point was that math competitions, per se, attract math "whiz kids". Hence, AoPS should be populated by, at least some, math "whiz kids".

Re: Ask HN: What is the big idea with algorithms?

#24

Post by mtpark »

For me, the study of algorithms is cs. Hacking is just a means of implementation. Also, I think it's a huge misconception that algorithms is all about math -- it's about problem solving in general.

As Dijkstra said "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."

Re: Ask HN: What is the big idea with algorithms?

#25

Post by derefr »

derefr wrote: post #11
TriinT wrote: post #6

"I'm a non-CS major and am much unlike many of you mathematical whiz kids who make up this board" Are there any math whiz kids on HN? (other than cperciva) There are many smart people on HN, but I don't think there are math whiz kids. This is a hacker forum, not a math forum like AoPS. Sometimes we discuss stuff like complexity and algorithms, but most of the time, we rant on Ruby x Python or why kids these days want…

> Whoever says that HN is made of math whiz kids probably knows very little math. To generalize that: the term "whiz kid" is only used when you know so little about something that you believe it to be a black.

...black box. I have no idea how that happened, honestly. (Now I can't correct it, either.)

Re: Ask HN: What is the big idea with algorithms?

#26

Post by TriinT »

derefr wrote: post #25
derefr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whoever says that HN is made of math whiz kids probably knows very little math. To generalize that: the term "whiz kid" is only used when you know so little about something that you believe it to be a black.

...black box . I have no idea how that happened, honestly. (Now I can't correct it, either.)

Funny that people upvoted your comment even though it made little sense ;-) Now it makes sense.

Re: Ask HN: What is the big idea with algorithms?

#28

Post by stcredzero »

mlLK wrote: post #7
noodle wrote: post #5

this suspiciously sounds like a final essay question for someone in college. seriously, though, this is a pretty broad, abstract concept. an algorithm is, more or less, a set of instructions to solve a problem. they didn't have some sort of magical genesis, and everyone uses them on a daily basis.

School's out bucko, I wouldn't stoop that low. :D This is more or less a metaphysical inquiry into where computer science is headed. Algorithms + data begets design patterns, design patterns + objects begets...

If you want a good feel for this stuff, try downloading and going through this course, "NAND to Tetris": (Link is not the course, but a talk about it.)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7654043762021156507

The book is only $26, last I looked. The course software is all Open Source.

You'll see how digital logic is used to construct components like logic units and memory, which is then used to construct a computer, for which you create a computer language, which you then use to write an operating system, and finally, you program games on it.

This will then give you the wherewithal to really understand Godel-Escher-Bach:

http://www.amazon.com/Godel-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/04...

If you want, you can read the book first, but then go through the course and read it again. The 1st time you read it, much of it will be lost on you, but the 2nd time, you'll have many Ah-HA! moments.

One key is Automata Theory. Understand that, and you can understand what you are trying to ask about.

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