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The myth of America's missing software engineers

management.fortune.cnn.com

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Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#51

Post by BillyMaize »

bluedino wrote: post #17

"Qualified applicants" takes on a different meaning if you're looking for someone to crank out a CRUD app or write operating system kernels. For example, we've been looking for an entry-level web developer for almost a year. They actually put "computer science degree" and "2 years experience" on the job ad. We found a pretty smart kid with an associates that blew the interview by mentioning he kept up with industry t…

Entry level with two years of experience?? I'd hope that isn't very strict or basically no one would be able to apply for the job meeting the requirements unless internships count, and even then you usually get like 1.5 years of experience that way.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#52

Post by opendais »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #43
pekk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the place of analysis you have put a lot of snark which seems to be analysis. If another company with a different business had posted - one with an incentive to say there is a shortage of high-skilled engineers, like most big companies hiring engineers - would you be implying their claims are false too? If not, you are being partial; if so, your method is just to say that whatever anyone says must be wrong because…

Ok, without the snark, I am specifically saying that this is not journalism. It is an advert with suspect claims.

Would you at least concede that the H1B process is highly vulnerable to someone abusing it by re-titling jobs/requirements with a lawyer's help?

I'd agree the data/method/motivation is highly suspect.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#53

Post by jcnnghm »

jwoah12 wrote: post #34
jbooth wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about paying a market wage, instead of offering a "free lunch" to people that cannot negotiate. Who can't negotiate? It's your fault if you can't/won't negotiate. I'd posit that the reason finance pays more for engineers than STEM is because most of us think that the atmosphere at a finance company will suck and as a result they have a smaller labor pool (I've literally never responded to a single financial recru…

The data doesn't support the conclusion that they pay more for engineers, just that they pay more per employee. I've been an engineer in financial services in NYC for 3.5 years, and I can fairly confidently say that those large salaries are going to the senior salespeople and traders who pull in hundreds of thousands or millions per year in commission. Maybe I've just been at the wrong places (I don't think so), but…

Quant engineers are exactly the people that all this clamoring is about. They are the star programmers that don't exist. Tech pay could go up a bit, and start attracting them with better working conditions, which would solve this bullshit crisis which is largely an excuse to import a bunch of cheap labor.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#54

Post by evgen »

cantankerous wrote: post #25

I used to have dreams of moving out to the valley after I finished school, but after checking, rechecking, and then rechecking again the cost of living out there, I pretty much scrapped the idea. The Bay Area may be a cool place to live, but it's not a 250% housing-cost-increase cool to me. Moreover, the pay doesn't match that housing increase. Forget it. For that price I'll wait for somebody to offer a telecommuting…

You will be renting, not buying. This means that they monthly housing cost differential will be more than made up for in the salary differential. The sad fact is that if you are not in the top slice of a particular subfield you are not going to be getting telecommuting options unless you get very lucky: by being in Missouri you both limit your opportunity to find the lucky break and limit your ability to get into the social/work networks that serve to bestow the "this guy rocks" credential. Your only option is probably to be a major contributor on a well-known open source project; this is not a bad thing to do in general, but you are limiting your options significantly. If you deign to lower your standard of living slightly for a short period of time you will be able to take a real chance at getting the opportunities you are looking for. You can always leave after doing a few years in the bay area.

You can't win if you don't play. If you are waiting on the sidelines for some magic opportunity to fall into your lap you are going to be waiting a very long time.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#55

Post by ruswick »

bluedino wrote: post #17

"Qualified applicants" takes on a different meaning if you're looking for someone to crank out a CRUD app or write operating system kernels. For example, we've been looking for an entry-level web developer for almost a year. They actually put "computer science degree" and "2 years experience" on the job ad. We found a pretty smart kid with an associates that blew the interview by mentioning he kept up with industry t…

Perhaps your company's issue is that it's hiring practices are so convoluted and absurd that they are driving away most of the prospective hires that possess brains?

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#57

Post by azakai »

cantankerous wrote: post #25

I used to have dreams of moving out to the valley after I finished school, but after checking, rechecking, and then rechecking again the cost of living out there, I pretty much scrapped the idea. The Bay Area may be a cool place to live, but it's not a 250% housing-cost-increase cool to me. Moreover, the pay doesn't match that housing increase. Forget it. For that price I'll wait for somebody to offer a telecommuting…

> Pro tip: If you bring in foreign engineers and pay them peanuts, they're not going to be able to live in the Bay Area much less want to.

The article said that they pay foreign engineers more on average than local ones.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#59

Post by geebee »

seldo wrote: post #23

"It would make sense that an employer would try to offer a lower salary to an employee it helped move to the United States since that employee also gains the benefit of getting sponsored, but the analysis found the opposite." This makes me want to punch the screen. It is ILLEGAL to pay an engineer on an H-1B less than the median salary for that position, precisely because people were worried that foreign labour would…

Keep in mind that preventing a wage increase is, over time, no different from undercutting wages. Typically, a shortage would spur an increase in wages - so allowing people to pay only the "prevailing" wage could still end up suppressing wage growth. One way around this would be to set a higher pay standard for H1B hires (perhaps requiring pay at the 90ile%+ level for the position, or creating a "prevailing wage + 25%").

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#60

Post by tootie »

zeteo wrote: post #15

My company (which, according to Glassdoor, is paying above-average tech salaries) recently started offering ~$100 per lead for software engineering referrals. If the person ends up being hired, their referrer also gets a ~$2000 bonus. A recruiting firm that can truly locate these missing engineers would be making a killing in the marketplace right now.

Same here. Data notwithstanding, I've done a lot of job interviews for candidates with the right resume and most are not hirable. Software engineering is a field where quality is hugely important.
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