Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The myth of America's missing software engineers

management.fortune.cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 143 posts

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#21

Post by jcnnghm »

samspenc wrote: post #9
jcnnghm wrote: post #5

I posted this in response to a comment the last time this came up. That article was killed, so I'm reposting: Whereas the reason there are open positions for programmers at high tech companies is that these companies want star programmers Maybe they should try paying like stars. What percentage of engineers that aren't founders or within the first five employees make over $300,000 a year? The money is in Silicon Vall…

I've always wondered about this. Is the standard deviation of Google's salaries less than that of GS's? Does GS have more of a long-tail?

That is an excellent question, and I wish I knew the answer. I have tried finding data on that before, but was unable to. My inclination is that GS has a much higher standard deviation than Google, with the data skewed right.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#22

Post by donutdan4114 »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #12

" Bright.com, a California-based company that uses big data analysis to pair jobseekers with employers, released a report last month that showed that the supposed dearth of high-skilled engineers in the United States may be fiction after all. " Which would presumably be a useful result for Bright's business, if it is true, as it would mean that companies simply are not looking hard enough, which is Bright's business.…

Are you selling an Apple? http://www.macmothership.com/gallery/MiscAds/Apple1Ad.jpg

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#23

Post by seldo »

"It would make sense that an employer would try to offer a lower salary to an employee it helped move to the United States since that employee also gains the benefit of getting sponsored, but the analysis found the opposite."

This makes me want to punch the screen. It is ILLEGAL to pay an engineer on an H-1B less than the median salary for that position, precisely because people were worried that foreign labour would be used to undercut wages.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#24

Post by gdilla »

jcnnghm wrote: post #5

I posted this in response to a comment the last time this came up. That article was killed, so I'm reposting: Whereas the reason there are open positions for programmers at high tech companies is that these companies want star programmers Maybe they should try paying like stars. What percentage of engineers that aren't founders or within the first five employees make over $300,000 a year? The money is in Silicon Vall…

And is GS average pay skewed by a 1% of employees who make globs of money into the 10s of millions in total comp? Do the majority of staffers make normalish wages? Admin assistants, IT, operations, etc?

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#25

Post by cantankerous »

I used to have dreams of moving out to the valley after I finished school, but after checking, rechecking, and then rechecking again the cost of living out there, I pretty much scrapped the idea. The Bay Area may be a cool place to live, but it's not a 250% housing-cost-increase cool to me. Moreover, the pay doesn't match that housing increase. Forget it. For that price I'll wait for somebody to offer a telecommuting position, move out to me (it's not SO BAD in Missouri), or move someplace less psycho crazy on the housing.

This story drives me crazy because the market is essentially in the favor of the engineers, but it feels to me like the big tech influencers are trying to tilt it back in their favor by shaping policy and changing the game.

Pro tip: If you bring in foreign engineers and pay them peanuts, they're not going to be able to live in the Bay Area much less want to.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#27

Post by mattdelhey »

wissler wrote: post #2

The trouble with this is that no centralized analysis can determine what "qualified" actually means; only an individual employer can determine that. So if they say there are no qualified engineers then that's the end of discussion. Having more intelligent people in the US is a good thing.

Not true in the eyes of our government. The whole premise of anti discrimination laws is based on the fact that there is something absolute that can be said about job eligibility. Unless you reject the validity of these laws as well.

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#28

Post by jcnnghm »

jbooth wrote: post #16
jcnnghm wrote: post #5

I posted this in response to a comment the last time this came up. That article was killed, so I'm reposting: Whereas the reason there are open positions for programmers at high tech companies is that these companies want star programmers Maybe they should try paying like stars. What percentage of engineers that aren't founders or within the first five employees make over $300,000 a year? The money is in Silicon Vall…

How about paying a market wage, instead of offering a "free lunch" to people that cannot negotiate. Who can't negotiate? It's your fault if you can't/won't negotiate. I'd posit that the reason finance pays more for engineers than STEM is because most of us think that the atmosphere at a finance company will suck and as a result they have a smaller labor pool (I've literally never responded to a single financial recru…

Who can't negotiate? It's your fault if you can't/won't negotiate.

If there is a pool of labor willing to accept a free lunch and campus-like atmosphere, coupled with cheap imported labor, in lieu of perhaps $100,000 in pay, it depresses wages across the entire industry.

I'd posit that the reason finance pays more for engineers than STEM is because most of us think that the atmosphere at a finance company will suck and as a result they have a smaller labor pool (I've literally never responded to a single financial recruiting email).

And this is the funny part. Do you really believe working somewhere like EA is different than working somewhere like Goldman Sachs?

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#29

Post by pekk »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #12

" Bright.com, a California-based company that uses big data analysis to pair jobseekers with employers, released a report last month that showed that the supposed dearth of high-skilled engineers in the United States may be fiction after all. " Which would presumably be a useful result for Bright's business, if it is true, as it would mean that companies simply are not looking hard enough, which is Bright's business.…

In the place of analysis you have put a lot of snark which seems to be analysis.

If another company with a different business had posted - one with an incentive to say there is a shortage of high-skilled engineers, like most big companies hiring engineers - would you be implying their claims are false too? If not, you are being partial; if so, your method is just to say that whatever anyone says must be wrong because it was in their interest.

3 out of the top 10 jobs where H-1B requested does not equal a third of employees, and it isn't clear that those 3 do see a shortage.

Also, in case of a shortage in a specialized area, why do we assume that companies cannot ever do anything to train employees in that specialization themselves? If you need piles of Java programmers who know SOAP, get some Java programmers and let them train on SOAP.

If you are in the business of producing (say) cars, you have to make capital investments, including investments in human capital - why should software be a special snowflake?

Re: The myth of America's missing software engineers

#30

Post by w3pm »

zeteo wrote: post #15

My company (which, according to Glassdoor, is paying above-average tech salaries) recently started offering ~$100 per lead for software engineering referrals. If the person ends up being hired, their referrer also gets a ~$2000 bonus. A recruiting firm that can truly locate these missing engineers would be making a killing in the marketplace right now.

Plenty of companies I know pay $5-10k or more for a successful hire referral. Good engineers are in demand, foreign or not. It's way easier to get the interview and be hired if you're local, though -- can't beat skill + convenience.

Considering you pay 25-30% or more of first year salary for a hire by a recruiter and $10k is a complete bargain.

Post reply on HN