Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#221

Post by VladRussian2 » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:19 AM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #211

waffle_ss wrote: post #20

On the night of the arrest—without an arrest warrant—Serge waived his right to call a lawyer. He phoned his wife and told her what had happened and that a bunch of F.B.I. agents were on the way to their home to seize their computers, and to please let them in—though they had no search warrant, either. Then he sat down and politely tried to clear up the F.B.I. agent's confusion. "He was completely not interested in th…

I don't know anyone in my circles who "has" a lawyer. So what to do when you encounter a situation with law enforcement officials? If I am at home, sure, I can search for a nearby lawyer's contact information. But what if I am at airport or some place where I cannot search for one? How do I find a lawyer in that case?

"If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning, if you wish."

it is when you're arrested. Until arrested - my understanding that one don't have to answer questions. Though personally i found it is really impossible to insist on your rights, i basically just chicken under stress : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6142434

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#222

Post by dragontamer » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:54 AM UTC

marvin wrote: post #52

drone wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all persons on US soil are to be protected by the constitution. (Not withstanding specific incidents of abuse, the fact that one is, or isn't a citizen is not intended to have any effect on the constitutional rights available.)

Is it really as simple as this in practice? Does anyone have any experience with this? As a foreigner, I have huge respect for the amount of trouble that the immigration authorities can cause for you if they figure they don't like your face.

Miranda Rights. Even foreigners are entitled to a public defender. Prosecutors aren't allowed to even talk to you without giving you your Miranda Rights first (except in very very limited situations)

EDIT: It seems like Immigration is treated differently from other criminal cases. But it seems like if you're arrested by the typical FBI agent (ie: some sort of crime), you're gonna get Miranda Rights read to you, and the option for a free public lawyer.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#223

Post by tomp » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 10:08 AM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #222

marvin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really as simple as this in practice? Does anyone have any experience with this? As a foreigner, I have huge respect for the amount of trouble that the immigration authorities can cause for you if they figure they don't like your face.

Miranda Rights. Even foreigners are entitled to a public defender. Prosecutors aren't allowed to even talk to you without giving you your Miranda Rights first (except in very very limited situations) EDIT: It seems like Immigration is treated differently from other criminal cases. But it seems like if you're arrested by the typical FBI agent (ie: some sort of crime), you're gonna get Miranda Rights read to you, and t…

In general, I'm more worried about not being arrested - i.e. when I'm on the freeway, police stops me, they ask me what I have in my trunk or where am I going, can I say "I don't want to talk to you" and call a lawyer?

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#224

Post by jonknee » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 11:16 AM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #202

jonknee wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting fired for breaking policy is fine. Calling in favors to the Feds and nailing someone for 8 years is not.

He was caught bang to rights with company property how is that different to a shop worker getting caught with some of the shops goods

Quite obviously the coffee shop worker would not be serving time in Federal prison. He caught caught with source code, not with using the source code, selling the source code, threatening to sell or release the source code, etc etc. No actual damage occurred.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#225

Post by dragontamer » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 12:18 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #223

dragontamer wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miranda Rights. Even foreigners are entitled to a public defender. Prosecutors aren't allowed to even talk to you without giving you your Miranda Rights first (except in very very limited situations) EDIT: It seems like Immigration is treated differently from other criminal cases. But it seems like if you're arrested by the typical FBI agent (ie: some sort of crime), you're gonna get Miranda Rights read to you, and t…

In general, I'm more worried about not being arrested - i.e. when I'm on the freeway, police stops me, they ask me what I have in my trunk or where am I going, can I say "I don't want to talk to you" and call a lawyer?

Long story short, yes. 5th Amendment means that you have the right to remain silent, 4th Amendment means that you have the right to refuse searches until the cop provides the necessary documentation. Both of these rights apply to foreigners.

All the lawyer probably will say is refuse entry until the cop shows a search warrant, and speak as little as possible.

There are some abusive states out there when it comes to foreigners. Arizona for instance is famous for having abusive laws / cops towards foreigners. (Arizona SB 1070, part of which was struck down as Unconstitutional however). So its important to remember that the law changes from State to State (its only natural in a country that is ~3000 miles wide).

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#226

Post by hso9791 » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 7:03 PM UTC

VladRussian2 wrote: post #221

RestlessMind wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anyone in my circles who "has" a lawyer. So what to do when you encounter a situation with law enforcement officials? If I am at home, sure, I can search for a nearby lawyer's contact information. But what if I am at airport or some place where I cannot search for one? How do I find a lawyer in that case?

"If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning, if you wish." it is when you're arrested. Until arrested - my understanding that one don't have to answer questions. Though personally i found it is really impossible to insist on your rights, i basically just chicken under stress : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6142434

"Am I free to go?"

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#227

Post by sgt101 » Tue, Aug 06, 2013, 9:40 PM UTC

phyalow wrote: post #190

sgt101 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dark pools scare me a hell of a lot more than witches - possibly because the continued functioning of the financial system is more important to me than warts.

how, all they are is usually unlit "unadvertised" elob's?

I have no idea what you are talking about, but the reason they scare me is because they provide an opaque mechanism for trading that enables or allows the unmanaged exposure of major financial institutions. This means that the confidence that anyone can have in a particular counter party in a transaction is undermined - whether or not they are participating in these transactions, because we cannot know.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#228

Post by phyalow » Mon, Aug 12, 2013, 8:44 AM UTC

sgt101 wrote: post #227

phyalow wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how, all they are is usually unlit "unadvertised" elob's?

I have no idea what you are talking about, but the reason they scare me is because they provide an opaque mechanism for trading that enables or allows the unmanaged exposure of major financial institutions. This means that the confidence that anyone can have in a particular counter party in a transaction is undermined - whether or not they are participating in these transactions, because we cannot know.

Most markets are regulated in such a way that unlit venues have to report executions back to the lit market. Also most alternative venues will operate through clearing houses (the same as lit public markets). The risks you mention are real but as mentioned most sophisticated markets have regulations and rules in place to mitigate them - after all a darkpool or crossing network that failed to find quality and non flakey contra parties doesnt present a compelling case for its use!