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Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

blog.garrytan.com

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Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#21

Post by milkshakes »

josephkern wrote: post #15
garry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is probably still a little bit to be said for curation in this world. The original article was quite long (and a great read and I recommend it) and there were nuggets in it I found interesting. I actually did try to submit the original article myself earlier today, and noticed that it had already been submitted several days ago. So at least I did upvote that.

Garry, yes curation is important, in fact, that's why HN exists, to curate and comment primary sources. If the article has already been submitted then why try to resubmit it after copying and pasting the content into another URL? The best way to do this on HN is to take the stance of the opposition and write an inflammatory headline, "I support (unpopular position) X, because (popular position) Y is considered harmfu…

are you really trying to give hints on how to use HN to a YC partner?

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#22

Post by nikcub »

The most interesting part of the reaction from the Vanity Fair piece for me is how so many geeks had no idea of this story until it was spelled out to them by a mainstream magazine (even though the Aleynikov case was extensively covered here on HN).

Now would be a good time to highlight the cases of hackers that Michael Lewis doesn't have time to write about: Bo Zhang, Michael Meneses, the Madoff programmers, John Kane (has had most charges dropped now), the Liberty Reserve guys and almost everybody ever charged with Computer Fraud and Abuse Act

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#23

Post by gruseom »

davidw wrote: post #5

Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6146446

I was disappointed in that previous discussion. Take away the off-topic stuff and it seemed like most reactions varied from "Good, throw the book at him" to "God that guy was dumb".

If Lewis' portrayal is accurate, then Aleynikov is pretty clearly an otherworldly technical type. That doesn't mean he should be exempt from laws, but it's not irrelevant either. For one thing, to anyone who knows the type, it says something about intent: his intent was likely not to exploit someone else's secrets, but to work on interesting things. A programmer like that wouldn't download code because it contained secrets; he'd download it because it contained library routines that he didn't want to have to rewrite someday. Why would he steal secrets? Anything important, he could just derive later. He probably thought that Goldman's technical designs were all wrong and would make a point of not copying them anyway.

There are countless stories of otherworldly technical types, including many heroes to people here, running afoul of laws or regulations and having to be rescued by the more worldly members of their scientific/technical community. I expected this technical community to recognize that pattern in Aleynikov and react with some empathy, because we all know someone like that or have a little of the type in ourselves. Instead we got a bit of a Colonel Blimp chorus. I hope that was just sample bias.

I wish we could see that source code. After reading Lewis' article, I would be shocked if it contained anything of nontrivial value to Goldman.

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#24

Post by VerilyForsooth »

downandout wrote: post #14

I read the original Vanity Fair article. I have to say that the whole thing looks like nothing more than Goldman using its governmental influence to send a message to its programmers that if they leave for another firm, there will be hell to pay. After he won his federal appeal and was released from federal prison, Goldman convinced the State of New York to file charges for the same conduct. That case is pending and…

Yeah, your comment is complete nonsense. Goldman Sachs didn't prosecute him because corporations can't prosecute people. He stole source code. What else is to say?

The discourse on Hacker News is hysterical and braindead.

It wasn't always like this.

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#25

Post by jhuckestein »

I love to stick it to Goldman as much as anyone else here, but I think the story is probably more nuanced than "Goldman jails innocent programmer for leaving the firm". I know that I have on occasion kept copies of source code for projects that I'm proud of (and there was often some open source code involved; that changes nothing). Not to give it to someone else, but because I was proud of the work.

That is probably a breach of contract but I don't think it should be a crime punishable by jail time (unless someone can prove that said code was used to aid another company).

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#27

Post by troels »

jhuckestein wrote: post #25

I love to stick it to Goldman as much as anyone else here, but I think the story is probably more nuanced than "Goldman jails innocent programmer for leaving the firm". I know that I have on occasion kept copies of source code for projects that I'm proud of (and there was often some open source code involved; that changes nothing). Not to give it to someone else, but because I was proud of the work. That is probably…

I suppose most programmers do this. I'm just playing the devils advocate here, but the difference might be in the type of code that was kept on file. Nothing I've ever kept was rocket science or novel in any form - No competitor would ever gain an advantage by peeking into it. But they could supposedly be something novel in a trading algorithm.

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#29

Post by troels »

cocoflunchy wrote: post #13
gruseom wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The degree of harm caused is often a factor in measuring a crime, especially when it comes to sentencing. As Garry points out, 8 years for this is crazy.

Well it is 1 year per megabyte... seems perfectly fair to me!

Now, that'll teach people to be concise!

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#30

Post by gruseom »

davidw wrote: post #17
gruseom wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The degree of harm caused is often a factor in measuring a crime, especially when it comes to sentencing. As Garry points out, 8 years for this is crazy.

Stuxnet is apparently half a megabyte.

Do you think it's plausible that 8 MB of source code, consisting of modified open-source libraries, represented a theft of critical Goldman Sachs secrets?
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