Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code • Hacker News Board

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#11

Post by garry » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:37 AM UTC

thejosh wrote: post #6

Linkbait title to blogspam for a vanity fair article, contains copypaste snippets from the original.

I think there is probably still a little bit to be said for curation in this world. The original article was quite long (and a great read and I recommend it) and there were nuggets in it I found interesting.

I actually did try to submit the original article myself earlier today, and noticed that it had already been submitted several days ago. So at least I did upvote that.

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#12

Post by ajarmst » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:51 AM UTC

It could have as easily been phrased (and likely would by a prosecutor) as "a cache of source code longer than the King James version of the bible." The defence could respond "only about three millionths of the amount of data in a human cell's nucleus." "More than seventy times the amount of software needed to land on the moon!". The amount is irrelevant. He released proprietary source code which is an offence under current law, with fairly well established sentencing guidelines. I agree that the law should be changed, but if you protest a law by breaking it, the results shouldn't come as a surprise.

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#13

Post by cocoflunchy » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:54 AM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #8

Narkov wrote: post #2

Since when is a crime measured in megabytes?

The degree of harm caused is often a factor in measuring a crime, especially when it comes to sentencing. As Garry points out, 8 years for this is crazy.

Well it is 1 year per megabyte... seems perfectly fair to me!

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#14

Post by downandout » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 6:00 AM UTC

I read the original Vanity Fair article. I have to say that the whole thing looks like nothing more than Goldman using its governmental influence to send a message to its programmers that if they leave for another firm, there will be hell to pay. After he won his federal appeal and was released from federal prison, Goldman convinced the State of New York to file charges for the same conduct. That case is pending and he is out on bail. A recent motion to dismiss that case based on double jeopardy was denied. Welcome to the USA - where money buys you all the justice you could ever want.

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#15

Post by josephkern » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 6:08 AM UTC

garry wrote: post #11

thejosh wrote: post #6

Linkbait title to blogspam for a vanity fair article, contains copypaste snippets from the original.

I think there is probably still a little bit to be said for curation in this world. The original article was quite long (and a great read and I recommend it) and there were nuggets in it I found interesting. I actually did try to submit the original article myself earlier today, and noticed that it had already been submitted several days ago. So at least I did upvote that.

Garry, yes curation is important, in fact, that's why HN exists, to curate and comment primary sources.

If the article has already been submitted then why try to resubmit it after copying and pasting the content into another URL?

The best way to do this on HN is to take the stance of the opposition and write an inflammatory headline, "I support (unpopular position) X, because (popular position) Y is considered harmful"

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#16

Post by garry » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 6:15 AM UTC

josephkern wrote: post #15

garry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is probably still a little bit to be said for curation in this world. The original article was quite long (and a great read and I recommend it) and there were nuggets in it I found interesting. I actually did try to submit the original article myself earlier today, and noticed that it had already been submitted several days ago. So at least I did upvote that.

Garry, yes curation is important, in fact, that's why HN exists, to curate and comment primary sources. If the article has already been submitted then why try to resubmit it after copying and pasting the content into another URL? The best way to do this on HN is to take the stance of the opposition and write an inflammatory headline, "I support (unpopular position) X, because (popular position) Y is considered harmfu…

I didn't submit this particular item, nor did I upvote it. I wrote it on my personal blog because I thought it was interesting.

Also that sort of title is editorializing, and that's not encouraged.

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#17

Post by davidw » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 6:21 AM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #8

Narkov wrote: post #2

Since when is a crime measured in megabytes?

The degree of harm caused is often a factor in measuring a crime, especially when it comes to sentencing. As Garry points out, 8 years for this is crazy.

Stuxnet is apparently half a megabyte.

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#18

Post by petegrif » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 6:27 AM UTC

ajarmst wrote: post #12

It could have as easily been phrased (and likely would by a prosecutor) as "a cache of source code longer than the King James version of the bible." The defence could respond "only about three millionths of the amount of data in a human cell's nucleus." "More than seventy times the amount of software needed to land on the moon!". The amount is irrelevant. He released proprietary source code which is an offence under…

a) I didn't read anything that suggested he was protesting the law. Perhaps you could point out that part of the story. b) He didn't release proprietary source code. Or did I miss that part?

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#19

Post by milkshakes » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 6:29 AM UTC

ajarmst wrote: post #12

It could have as easily been phrased (and likely would by a prosecutor) as "a cache of source code longer than the King James version of the bible." The defence could respond "only about three millionths of the amount of data in a human cell's nucleus." "More than seventy times the amount of software needed to land on the moon!". The amount is irrelevant. He released proprietary source code which is an offence under…

you'd have a point, except for the part where an appeals court unanimously acquitted him

Re: Goldman Sachs sent a computer scientist to jail over 8MB of open source code

#20

Post by petegrif » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 6:29 AM UTC

woah wrote: post #7

Was he tried by a jury of software engineers?

The notion that once be tried by a jury of one's peers is practically meaningless for any 'crime' involving scientific knowledge or any specialized competence.