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Open letter to Sal Khan

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Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#91

Post by spicyj »

Trianglemancsd wrote: post #87
spicyj wrote: post #17

Hi, Ben from Khan Academy here. I just woke up and don't have time for a full response right now but here are a few quick words. Most of our math content creation work these days is driven by our push to cover the new Common Core math standards, which have recently been adopted by 45 states. We're following these standards not only because of their recent popularity but because they are among the best standards we've…

Thanks for the thorough response here. You wrote, "Our recent push to improve our math content hasn't yet touched the decimals exercises but it will soon." But Mr. Khan posted a video of a new decimal exercise just last week, which is what prompted the post. I get that everything can't be perfect right away. Somebody at KA has been working on decimals instruction in the past year, so it was frustrating to see that th…

In this particular case, the exercise is one that we've had since November 2011. This week we made a push to have videos created whenever an exercise doesn't have an accompanying explanation, which is why that video was created specifically for exercise.

Reviewing content of the exercises is a separate and important task which is ongoing – as you point out, the exercise itself has a few problems and we'll be sure to revisit its content in the coming months. Thanks for your useful criticism.

(And sorry for not responding yet directly on your blog or to you on Twitter – it was on my to-do list but as I opened Hacker News this morning, I felt the need to comment here, as response speed is key on a site like this.)

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#92

Post by Trianglemancsd »

manishsharan wrote: post #29

Dear Open letter writer, I am a parent of a 10 year old who likes Maths; my choices in fostering and encouraging this trait were to (A) enroll her in a really expense private school, (b) enroll ins Kumon (its a canadian after school private tutoring type of service) (c) private tutors -- which I can't afford. Please note that her teachers have shown no inclination to help advance her learning beyond the curriculum. S…

Open letter writer here.

I am so glad to hear that your child finds Khan Academy videos stimulating and thought-provoking. I really do think that's wonderful and I am glad this resource exists for you and your child. I mean this in all sincerity.

At the same time, the popular press rhetoric around Mr. Khan is about his revolutionary teaching. The medium (free availability of instructional videos) gets confused with the message (hastily produced rehashing of low-quality traditional content). It is the medium you celebrate in your note here—that the videos are freely available and better than (a) nothing, or (b) very expensive alternatives.

In my letter, I was asking Mr. Khan to pay closer attention to the message. Mr. Kamens and others here have indicated that this is coming. I suppose I shall take their word on that for now.

Quickly about your 10-year-old? I suggest any of Martin Gardener's books, and "On Numbers" by Isaac Asimov as inexpensive ways to stimulate your child's mathematical mind. "On Numbers" may be tough to find—it has been out of print for years—but it will be worth the effort.

Either way, happy learning to you both!

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#93

Post by Trianglemancsd »

spicyj wrote: post #91
Trianglemancsd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the thorough response here. You wrote, "Our recent push to improve our math content hasn't yet touched the decimals exercises but it will soon." But Mr. Khan posted a video of a new decimal exercise just last week, which is what prompted the post. I get that everything can't be perfect right away. Somebody at KA has been working on decimals instruction in the past year, so it was frustrating to see that th…

In this particular case, the exercise is one that we've had since November 2011. This week we made a push to have videos created whenever an exercise doesn't have an accompanying explanation, which is why that video was created specifically for exercise. Reviewing content of the exercises is a separate and important task which is ongoing – as you point out, the exercise itself has a few problems and we'll be sure to…

Fair enough. Thanks for the reply. No worries about the forum for the response.

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#94

Post by natrius »

stiff wrote: post #27

This is the exact same kind of shit that got thrown at every person ever who successfully challenged a rusty status quo, especially when job security was at risk. Quoting the original piece in Washington Post: We have great respect for the stated goal of Khan Academy — “A free, world-class education for anyone, anywhere.” Yet, we have some serious concerns about the quality of the instruction providing this education…

It should be noted that the Washington Post owns Kaplan, which is effectively a Khan Academy competitor.

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#95

Post by spicyj »

Trianglemancsd wrote: post #93
spicyj wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this particular case, the exercise is one that we've had since November 2011. This week we made a push to have videos created whenever an exercise doesn't have an accompanying explanation, which is why that video was created specifically for exercise. Reviewing content of the exercises is a separate and important task which is ongoing – as you point out, the exercise itself has a few problems and we'll be sure to…

Fair enough. Thanks for the reply. No worries about the forum for the response.

One more thing:

As I was looking through our content, I found we have a new exercise on comparing decimals! It was written just 10 days ago (and hasn't yet been added to the main site):

http://sandcastle.khanacademy.org/media/castles/Khan:master/...

With questions like 0.3 __ 0.03 and 0.02 __ 0.1, I think you'll find that the exercise touches on exactly the misconceptions that you've seen. In addition, the hints use area models to explain the comparison, just as you suggest in your post.

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#96

Post by aswanson »

stiff wrote: post #27

This is the exact same kind of shit that got thrown at every person ever who successfully challenged a rusty status quo, especially when job security was at risk. Quoting the original piece in Washington Post: We have great respect for the stated goal of Khan Academy — “A free, world-class education for anyone, anywhere.” Yet, we have some serious concerns about the quality of the instruction providing this education…

Right, the whole tone reads as though he wants to impugn Sal's character and motive, as if he set out when he initially developed the vids as an attempt to pilfer money from the Gates foundation. He was a hedge fund analyst, for god's sake. As if he couldn't find a more financially profitable path through life.

He never stated the goal of the Academy was to be the end all and be-all of mathematical education, and anyone acting as though that were his stance is being disingenuous. These are supplemental add-ons to a wide range of important educational topics that I and my children have benefitted from far more than people who claim to have a better method but do nothing but blogbitch about KA.

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#97

Post by ColinWright »

ivank wrote: post #89
ColinWright wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make great points, and much of what you say is absolutely true. But I have dealt with pupils who have severely broken concepts of decimal place, and whose potential for understanding basic arithmetic has been damaged beyond repair.[0] I believe the KA is doing brilliant things, and opening up knowledge for all is fantastic. I would just like to be convinced that modern research about pedagogy is being integrated…

> found no way to dissuade the student that 0.35 was bigger than 0.4, no matter what we tried. Out of curiosity, assuming you tried a number line, do you remember why that didn't work?

I think if I could ever have understood the difficulty, I would've had a chance of working around it. The problem seemed to be that they could place things on the number line, see that this was to the right of that, say that 0.4 was to the right of 0.35, say that hence 0.4 was bigger than 0.35, and then go right back to doing what they had always done.

My model of what was happening in the student's head is illustrated by this. A survey was conducted asking people:

    A. Which is true:
           (a) The Sun goes round the Earth.
       or
           (b) The Earth goes round the Sun.

       ?

    B. How long does it take?
Of those people who gave the answer to A as (b), over 80% answered B with "a day" or "24 hours" or something equivalent. In short, they got the "right" answer to A, and then a completely disconnected and obviously "wrong" answer to B.

In this case I think people are answering A by reciting a fact they learned when young. We are told that the Earth goes round the Sun, so that's what people recount. By they don't connect that with their personal experience. Their personal experience is seeing the Sun going overhead. They "know" that the Sun goes round the Earth, and that it takes a day. They're told the Earth goes round the Sun, and that's what they parrot for question A, but when asked B, they answer from their own personal experience of seeing the Sun go overhead.

And that takes a day.

So I think the student could follow the things they had been told, and they could recite, parrot fashion, all the "right" things that would get them the marks on the test designed specifically to assess their knowledge of decimals places, and then when they had to put it into action, they fell back on what they felt things looked like, and were driven by their intuition and experience.

Which was completely wrong.

So that's my "theory" of where the disconnect lay. But maybe I'm wrong, because I certainly never fixed it.

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#98

Post by nonrecursive »

kamens wrote: post #44
spicyj wrote: post #17

Hi, Ben from Khan Academy here. I just woke up and don't have time for a full response right now but here are a few quick words. Most of our math content creation work these days is driven by our push to cover the new Common Core math standards, which have recently been adopted by 45 states. We're following these standards not only because of their recent popularity but because they are among the best standards we've…

Another Ben from Khan Academy here! I'd like to also emphasize how much we lean on our community. Khan Academy's goal is not to be perfect, but to iterate towards perfection — it'd be impossible to do that across such a broad array of content without building up a strong community. Beneath our videos the community creates Q&A to help address (we hope) misconceptions and follow-ups about each topic (fun example: https…

Thanks for the clarification! I think you guys are doing awesome, world-changing work.

I, too, took issue with the letter. It seemed like the author was trying to embarrass Khan Academy, using one issue to imply that you're irresponsible and lazy. I think that his approach is in itself irresponsible and lazy - it would have made more sense for the author to reach out privately to get a better understanding of how your organization operates instead of loudly proclaiming, without merit, that you're squandering trust and resources.

Anyway - just wanted to say that I think most people will find that the article reflects poorly on the author and not on Khan Academy. Keep up the good work!

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#99

Post by [deleted] »

makomk wrote: post #72
stiff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is plenty to be criticized about KA, but this has politics written all over it, if the above Freudian slip doesn't convince you, consider the following bits: Behind paywall, but someone at Khan Academy is an NCTM member, right? Right? If not, shoot me a note. We’ll get a copy to you. Or from the other article: Khan could tap into any number of existing networks of exemplary teaching, perhaps from recipients of…

Perhaps a HN-appropriate analogy is in order here. Imagine someone came along who claimed that they could break the expensive stranglehold programmers have on software development and improve on the often mediocre code they produce by teaching anyone to program. Now imagine that it was widely lauded in the press and there was political pressure within the company you worked at to incorporate this new technique - exce…

[deleted]

Re: Open letter to Sal Khan

#100

Post by ekm2 »

eropple wrote: post #78
ekm2 wrote: post #73

I fail to see how Sal Khan is not getting everything exactly right .None of my math teachers ever presented math perfectly,but what they gave was enough to get me to graduate top of my college math class.Do not sweat the small stuff,man.

Presenting material in a way that impresses upon students that 0.35 is bigger than 0.4 is not "small stuff".

The point is that it does not spell doom to the rest of your mathematical career because one fact was wrong back in first grade
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