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The world is socialist

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Re: The world is socialist

#71

Post by [deleted] »

falk wrote: post #60
guard-of-terra wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Socialism is an economy where production is owned and run by the workers for the benefit of the working class" Isn't that communism?

No. There's a reason why they are two different words. Socialism is after capitalism but before communism in terms of Marxist theory. From my understanding the big difference is there is still competition in socialism and things are privately owned by the workers, where as everything is publicly owned in communism. Remember that during Marx's time it was unusual to have the boss down on the production line working wi…

[deleted]

Re: The world is socialist

#72

Post by solistice »

rtpg wrote: post #56
jessriedel wrote: post #11

> All these people who are so great aren't really that much greater than the average schmuck on the subway. There really isn't that much range in the smartness or fitness of human beings. Whelp, you've lost me. The difference in productivity and smartness---as measured by the consistent ability to impact the world---of people is enormous (the additional importance of luck notwithstanding). I'm not sure why you though…

If you had a group of near-equivalent individuals, but you still had to elect a leader, the leader would end up being de facto more productive if only by his position. There are also extremely productive people and very unproductive people, but I think it's safe to say that a very large percentage of the population falls in a specific productivity window. And the very skilled can "take one for the team" on the issues…

I'd like to ask whether it's "take one for the team", or "take everything of everyone's shoulders till I perish" because I've been in groups with the latter dynamic.

Re: The world is socialist

#73

Post by foobarbazqux »

scarmig wrote: post #53
dmfdmf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common smear spread by Rand's haters. She explained the principle in this article which the haters conveniently ignore; http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/government_grants_and_scho...

So, her principle is basically "it's always bad to accept government handouts, unless you're an Objectivist, in which case it's fine so long as you complain very loudly while receiving them." I wish I were kidding.

I don't agree with her on the specific point, but I actually agree with her more broadly. If your everyday life doesn't match up with your ideals, you don't have to martyr yourself to be a good person. Hypocrisy is a normal state of affairs. For example, it's okay for me to complain about sweatshops but still buy running shoes that are made in them. It's okay for me to send my kids to a private school because the public schools in my area are terrible, even though I believe in raising taxes to support a high quality public education for everyone and making private schools obsolete.

Re: The world is socialist

#74

Post by dev_jim »

wissler wrote: post #36

The heart of the matter is this question: should the community violate the consent of the individual or not? Coming at it from the utilitarian point of view (for sake of argument -- I am not a utilitarian[1]), does it really need to be argued that every humane person should naturally wish to respect individual consent to the fullest extent possible? The only remaining question should be to determine to what extent th…

This is a good example of why very few libertarians exist in NYC. Fantasy solutions like a thousand different HOA's to plow the streets just don't make much sense when you think about 8 million people spread across hundreds of square miles.

Re: The world is socialist

#75

Post by cscurmudgeon »

kungfooguru wrote: post #38
guard-of-terra wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the point was attacking capitalism. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive in a society.

They are. Socialism is an economy where production is owned and run by the workers for the benefit of the working class, which would be the ruling class at that time. Simply having a welfare state or some nationalized industries is not socialism. The source of power and ownership of production is still in the hands of the bourgeoisie. Mises as serious? Hah. But yes, he and the others are attacked less but only becaus…

>Their ideas are as worthless.

Just like Socialism which ruined India.

Re: The world is socialist

#76

Post by staccatomeasure »

pandaman wrote: post #59
staccatomeasure wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People care about books not only for their truths but also for the lies that influence others. The former should be lauded while the latter needs to be combatted.

I don't see every other liberal blogger going on and on against the whole host of lying books (e.g. astrology, esoteric etc). And please don't tell me they are not influential. Much more people know their astrological sign and how bad is to hurt one's Karma than people who know who is John Galt.

When you say liberal you are referring to a political leaning. Rand's growing influence is on politics. If people started electing astrological evangelist preachers to government positions and it resulted in policies that they disagreed with, then people would spend a lot more time combatting the phony astrology that the movement is based on. That focus wouldn't make astrology any truer.

Re: The world is socialist

#77

Post by [deleted] »

KaiserPro wrote: post #49
gnosis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So many people who claim, or seem to have taken inspiration from Rand would, in fact, be "bad guys" in Atlas Shrugged." Case in point: Rand hated Libertarians.[1] Some typical examples from the article: - She called Libertarianism "a mockery of philosophy and ideology" - She accused Libertarians of "slinging slogans and trying to ride on two bandwagons" Later, she accuses them of entertaining "amateur political noti…

Rand hated everyone apart from tall, arrogant & selfish men.

[deleted]

Re: The world is socialist

#78

Post by dreamfactory »

johnnyg wrote: post #14

1. Can we agree that both full socialism and full rand style capitalism end in tears? 2. Token rebuttals. a. Someone lives irresponsibly, I live responsibly. The sick that comes for us all devastates them early and I'm told "since we all get sick, they got sick much earlier due to all the crack and booze, they can't pay because they were grasshoppering it up while you worked, so now you pay". This is an extreme examp…

When somebody gets TB, regardless of their lifestyle, is it in your best interests that they get a full course of treatment in an isolation ward in hospital, or that they wander the streets coughing blood all over the place and incubate a new drug-resistant strain? Is it in your best interests that tap water is maintained by competing for-profit companies (see Victorian Britain and cholera), and is it better for you to pay 'insurance' to competing for-profit fire services?

Re: The world is socialist

#79

Post by thelastuser »

staccatomeasure wrote: post #68
wissler wrote: post #36

The heart of the matter is this question: should the community violate the consent of the individual or not? Coming at it from the utilitarian point of view (for sake of argument -- I am not a utilitarian[1]), does it really need to be argued that every humane person should naturally wish to respect individual consent to the fullest extent possible? The only remaining question should be to determine to what extent th…

What happens when that HOA needs to make a new rule? From what you described it sounds like any person on the losing end of an argument is being violated, and an HOA that has to deal with anything but some basic set of agreed upon rules will not satisfy the non-violation requirements.

I cannot speak for the parent, but disagreements can be resolved by independent, third-party arbitration (which may have also been agreed upon by the HOA). This is not to be confused with a territorial monopoly on final arbitration, viz. a government court.

Re: The world is socialist

#80

Post by huherto »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #21
ef4 wrote: post #18

When you attack capitalism by attacking Ayn Rand, you are attacking a terrible straw man. You'll notice that people rarely start by attacking the works of von Mises or Hayek or Rothbard, because those guys were actual serious academics who knew what they were talking about. Much easier to poke holes in the eccentric philosophy of one novelist.

I doubt the point was attacking capitalism. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive in a society.

I think the current wisdom is that neither is perfect, they have different strengths and weaknesses. Some aspects of the economy are better managed using open markets with some regulation and others are better managed centrally by the government. A more current debate is to find the best mix.

It would be very hard to argue in favor of pure capitalism or socialism.

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