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Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

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Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#41

Post by fsck--off »

jlgaddis wrote: post #7

I submitted a link a few days ago about a possible IE 0-day in the wild and it immediately became "[dead]". It's the first submission I've ever made and I haven't, AFAIK, broken any HN rules since I finally created my account (after years of lurking). On a related note, you will be hellbanned if you create an HN account over Tor (even if you "don't do anything wrong"). Considering the recent NSA revelations, I think…

> On a related note, you will be hellbanned if you create an HN account over Tor

That's not true. This account was created using a Tor browser bundle less than three weeks ago, and it is definitely not hellbanned.

Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#42

Post by dasil003 »

kmfrk wrote: post #35
ColinWright wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For how long have you run a popular discussion web site, and what measures do you take to reduce the increased snarkiness in extended exchanges? I'd love to hear how you solve the problem.

Have a set of clear rules (and not vague non-language like "don't write non-hacker, off-topic stuff") - AND ENFORCE IT, visibly. Unenforced rules aren't rules. Unclarified rules aren't rules. Whenever someone is penalized, point them to the specific rules they violated. And keep in mind that people make mistakes every now and then. Show largesse. This isn't a production line where flawed products are tossed out at th…

Hellbanning is necessary because of the low barrier to creating a new account. You are assuming that all users are well-intentioned and can be reasoned with, but this is simply not the case. Any sizable only community will develop a number of hard-core anti-social trolls exhibiting behavior which they can only undertake online (because in real life they would get their asses kicked on a regular basis). When said trolls are also hackers you need some relatively automated and powerful tools to keep them in check. It's unfortunate that there is some collateral damage, but please understand that the choice is not between new users being inconvenienced for not, the choice is between HN being a place where civilized discourse can exist and spiraling towards a 4chan-like atmosphere.

Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#43

Post by northwest »

sjtgraham wrote: post #40
northwest wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An open discussion has the benefit of generating valuable feedback for PG.

I may or may not agree with you, but my comment only considers HN rules and that there is a strong precedent for these HN-policy meta-discussions to be killed by mods.

> there is a strong precedent for these HN-policy meta-discussions to be killed by mods.

If this is true, it would be a pretty sad state of affairs.

If such a discussion comes up, it's because of a lack of transparency.

Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#45

Post by gus_massa »

ColinWright wrote: post #26
jlgaddis wrote: post #7

I submitted a link a few days ago about a possible IE 0-day in the wild and it immediately became "[dead]". It's the first submission I've ever made and I haven't, AFAIK, broken any HN rules since I finally created my account (after years of lurking). On a related note, you will be hellbanned if you create an HN account over Tor (even if you "don't do anything wrong"). Considering the recent NSA revelations, I think…

Dead on arrival often indicates a link to a banned site - there is a list somewhere ...

The last live post from baidu.com was send 2.7 years ago. I guess that the site is blocked. https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/submissions&q=baidu....

Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#46

Post by anonymfus »

alan_cx wrote: post #23
northwest wrote: post #2

As a general request, I would welcome more transparency (about how things are handled and what we can and cannot expect from HN). EDIT: I also believe that a lack of it will ultimately lead to HN being replaced by something else.

The whole business of banning from sites in general bothers me. More so with huge sites like FB and Twitter. These sites like to promote themselves as communities, and to be banned from a community with no explanation, due process or right to appeal is awful. It can literally alter, even ruin lives. This, AFAIK, doesn't happen in the "real" world". I don't see why virtual communities get some sort of impunity. Person…

Dictator never give up the power. Only sites which already have good moderation would sign up to such service.

Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#47

Post by buro9 »

Kudos wrote: post #31
nwh wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking Tor won't stop any spam. Real spammers have tens of thousands of unique addresses to use; why would they use the 300 or so exit nodes that Tor has available?

Blocking Tor stops plenty of spam. Boards.ie blocked Tor and watched spam fall off a cliff.

As someone who runs some large boards, blocking Tor stops trolls. Does very little for spam.

For spam, http://www.stopforumspam.com is pretty awesome. But most likely because the few people who have written scripts for vBulletin or phpBB attempt to hit all of the vBulletin and phpBB sites... so it works pretty well for that group. May have zero effect on something like HN where an entirely different approach may be used (cheap labour?).

Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#48

Post by josephpmay »

sjtgraham wrote: post #40
northwest wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An open discussion has the benefit of generating valuable feedback for PG.

I may or may not agree with you, but my comment only considers HN rules and that there is a strong precedent for these HN-policy meta-discussions to be killed by mods.

To be perfectly honest, I hadn't reviewed the HN guidelines in awhile, and I forgot about that one. If I have an issue in the future I'll be sure to do that, however, I think this discussion is valuable to the HN community, and it would be unwise for me to delete this post.

Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#49

Post by igravious »

xraycharlie wrote: post #44

If I make a comment, any comment, and it gets two or more downvotes, I assume the account has been hellbanned and abandon the account. Why? Because it's happened to me many times in the past. I create new accounts often. The thought police cannot stop me.

That's ridiculous.

I often get down-voted for some of my more bone-headed, humorously off-topic or bad faith posts. Well, not _very_ often (generally I'm a good soul) but you get the point.

If you're not making this up and this has happened to you many times then maybe you should consider the possibility that your posts are not adding anything of benefit to the site. I created one account initially and went from there. I have never even felt the need to create an alter-ego, and evil twin or a "posting-while-drunk" safe account.

Hope that helps. Think twice or thrice before you hit the "reply" button.

Re: Ask PG: Why is everybody hellbanned?

#50

Post by D9u »

ig1 wrote: post #25
jlgaddis wrote: post #7

I submitted a link a few days ago about a possible IE 0-day in the wild and it immediately became "[dead]". It's the first submission I've ever made and I haven't, AFAIK, broken any HN rules since I finally created my account (after years of lurking). On a related note, you will be hellbanned if you create an HN account over Tor (even if you "don't do anything wrong"). Considering the recent NSA revelations, I think…

Tor exit nodes have been banned from HN since at least 2011 due to abuse, although they used to be IP blocked rather than hell-banned.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5965697

Posted from Tor, as was this comment.

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