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Mailpile: Let’s take email back

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Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#141

Post by jspaetzel »

mkl wrote: post #26
HerraBRE wrote: post #3

Bjarni here, lead dev. Happy to answer any questions.

"Mailpile is a modern web-mail you run on your own computer." I think this sentence should be the first thing anyone sees when they go to the page. The text at the moment assumes everyone already knows roughly what Mailpile is, so I didn't figure it out until I read HN comments. Also, are there screenshots somewhere?

I think that this sentence needs to be gotten rid of completely. - Webmail is fundamentally not something that can run on your own computer. The word is "web" mail, not desktop mail, it's just going to confuse users.

In addition to it being confusing, because of dynamic IPs and residential port blocking you may be able to run it on your computer, you just won't be able to do anything with it due to other internet infrastructure... - Sending mail from home is almost guaranteed to fail sometimes/often, due to dynamic ip ranges which are frequently blocked. - Port 25 and port 80 are blocked by most major american ISPs these days for residential services. Making this unusable from a home server. Not to mention it's against many ISPs terms of service to run a server from home without paying for a business package. (That's right, it's not just google fibre) - SPF records and other forms of email authentication? You would also need a third party DDNS service if using a dynamic IP.

So with all of that said, I like the interface pictures. It could be a good competitor to webmail clients like roundcube and friends.

Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#142

Post by nhangen »

saraid216 wrote: post #113
nhangen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally get it, but why not share some of the risk with your supporters and meet them halfway? Asking for a full (decent) salary for two people for a year places all of the risk on your supporters and makes you look uninspired. Edit: I can't reply to child, so I'll do it here. It has nothing to do with a free ride. I don't want the product because the solution isn't right for me, but I would much prefer to pay a mont…

I'm confused as to what you imagine "meet them halfway" actually entails.

Ask for enough money to have say 3-6 months of resources, which would force them to figure out pricing/business economics before the money runs out, and forces them to invest in the idea as much as their backers do.

First reaction for me was: 'Wow, this is awesome, and I'm looking for something like this. How much do they need? Wow, 100k to build a mail app? No thanks.'

I get that this is a free product and is open source, but I'd like to know what they plan to do after the 100k is gone? Instead of a proposal a) pay us to work on it for a year, I'd like to see proposal b) help us bridge between now and phase 2, which is where we'll x.

I'd just like to see a little more thought put into it.

Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#144

Post by nonrecursive »

nhangen wrote: post #140
nonrecursive wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your objections at all. These guys are making a proposal, which individuals are free to accept or reject as they see fit. Those who accept it know what they're getting themselves into and accept the risk. No one is getting scammed. If these guys want a parachute, that's their prerogative. Just because you wouldn't take the same approach doesn't mean the approach is a bad one.

Point blank - I'm tired of people abusing crowdfunding as some sort of money grab (Spike Lee's recent Kickstarter as an example) and because I'm involved in the industry, I have a vested interest in seeing crowdfunding, as an industry, prosper. These guys probably have a great product, and are probably great people, and for that reason alone, I feel bad that my comment leads the thread. However, I never said anything…

I can see where you're coming from and I think that your argument would be stronger if you took your own feelings out of it. For example, you say that you find it insulting that they'd ask you to pay for their salary. Well, why should it matter to anyone else that you feel insulted? If that's your reaction then they're probably not talking to you. Besides that - why should anyone care about whether you feel insulted? You also mention that you feel no sympathy for the family argument because of your experiences. In this context, why does that matter? I don't mean this to be dismissive of you personally; I'm just trying to share my minor analysis.

You also say that you're not suggesting they're running a scam but at the same time you compare their outreach to a money grab.

I don't know, perhaps your arguments are very good ones and I am a heartless bastard because they don't sway me. At their root, it seems like you're saying that these guys are proposing something that violates your sense of fairness somehow. I'd be interested in seeing an argument that applies more universally, and not just that you personally find it unfair.

Myself, I think the cool thing about crowdfunding is that it's so open and free. I might personally find it frustrating or unfair that money gets allocated in a way that doesn't match my values, but too bad for me!

Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#145

Post by alternize »

HerraBRE wrote: post #92
alternize wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so if i understand you comment right: it will be a MUA that accessed through a webbrowser, and one still needs to have an IMAP capable email-account somewhere else?

Yes, at least to begin with, we are not providing people with domains or e-mail addresses. IMAP, POP3, or run your own SMTP server...

but then I'm not really seeing what the advantagess over running thunderbird + engimail locally or using roundcube (which also has openpgp support built in) would be?

Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#146

Post by icebraining »

mtgx wrote: post #139
HerraBRE wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! The idea is you run Mailpile on a machine you control (it is an MUA), either your laptop (and connect to localhost) or a home server like a plug computer or something like that - basically somewhere where you feel comfortable storing your secret keys. And yes, API access to mail is something we already support, every "command" can return either HTML, plain text or JSON. Probably XML to come as well. We'll hav…

I'm not sure how you plan on doing it, but I think you should tie everyone's public keys to their names/id's. So let's say you know someone who uses Mailpile. You shouldn't have to ask him what's his key. You should just "enable PGP" (if it's not default, though maybe it should be), and he should just get the e-mail. So try to do the key management as automatic and "out of the way" for users as possible. That's the b…

That's how PGP itself works - you have keyservers, to which the keys can be submitted and then other people can query it using the person's name and/or email.

The problem is, of course, ensuring the key is correct, and not some hijacker's.

Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#147

Post by stevekemp »

HerraBRE wrote: post #131
gcr wrote: post #127

How is this any different from every other desktop mail client (eg. Thunderbird, Inky, Evolution, Notmuch, Sup, Mutt, ...)? What makes this better?

This is a desktop mail client. It is also a web-mail you can run on a server somewhere if you so choose. It depends on how it is deployed. Contrasting Mailpile with other tools, one difference is that the basic design is that of a search engine, not a tool for reading mail from folders. Most current desktop mail clients are built on top of a bad paradigm, in my opinion. Another exciting thing about this model, is tha…

I've been working on an extensible console-based mail-client for the past while. (http://lumail.org/)

I abhor the idea that clients only ever interact with messages from a single folder.

Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#148

Post by unclebucknasty »

nhangen wrote: post #66

I'm in the crowdfunding business, so I feel strange saying this, but I'm really turned off by this model of 'pay us in advance for developing a product that hasn't been market tested or validated,' especially when asking for a sum as large as is $100,000. What happened to building something and selling it? According to the campaign page, the need is so great because: "We're asking for a lot of money, so of course you…

I hear what you're saying, and I was initially tempted to feel the same way, until I caught myself.

I think your take on this is a function of our indoctrination into a particular form of capitalist mindset. We don't reward what's of value to society. We reward what can be sold. It's skewed.

In addition, there is this idea that we should be cogs in the machine as kind of a de facto life goal. Get an education and go to work for someone else. Want to be an entrepreneur and do more? Well, it will cost you dearly. You either go see the gatekeepers with capital and hope they smile on you, only to end up back in the position where you are essentially working for someone again (your investors). Or, you bootstrap and work your ass off trying to support yourself/family while holding down a day job. BTW, like you, I did the latter.

I think this is exactly why we don't have enough people using their talents to contribute something vs. just trying to make cash.

Society should encourage this, and if crowdfunding can help more people to pursue their talents/dreams (especially for the good of society), then I am all for it. We need more of this.

Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#149

Post by hugi »

nhangen wrote: post #66

I'm in the crowdfunding business, so I feel strange saying this, but I'm really turned off by this model of 'pay us in advance for developing a product that hasn't been market tested or validated,' especially when asking for a sum as large as is $100,000. What happened to building something and selling it? According to the campaign page, the need is so great because: "We're asking for a lot of money, so of course you…

Well, then don't participate. Geez.

Re: Mailpile: Let’s take email back

#150

Post by SupremumLimit »

nhangen wrote: post #66

I'm in the crowdfunding business, so I feel strange saying this, but I'm really turned off by this model of 'pay us in advance for developing a product that hasn't been market tested or validated,' especially when asking for a sum as large as is $100,000. What happened to building something and selling it? According to the campaign page, the need is so great because: "We're asking for a lot of money, so of course you…

What's wrong with taking the risk out? If there are people willing to pay in advance, then it's a better solution for everybody. It could mean, for example, they can make a better product as they are not constrained by living on their savings. I find it bizarre that you find it "insulting".
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