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For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

nytimes.com

11–20 of 61 posts

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#11
post #2

So I get that by cutting out the insurer you are saving some funds, but where does the rest of the difference come from? Are the hospital rooms and surgeons so much cheaper because everyone in those countries pay them rather than just the few people who actually use their services?

Some possible reasons:

* The hospital system in Belgium is 99% either state or non-profit owned. Less sticky fingers. Less luxury.

* Infrastructure (buildings, tools, ...). The infrastructure is extremely heavily state subsidised.

* Medical professional wage negotiations. Medical professionals earn quite a bit less in Belgium than in the US. Quite many (most?) medical pros actually seem to have their priorities right: helping people solve medical problems.

* Choice. In Belgium, people, not insurers choose the hospital they go to, based on reputation and perceived quality.

* Volume. Healthcare in Belgium is fairly accessible, probably one of the most accessible in the world. This means few people putting off operations for financial reasons, so higher volume.

* State subsidies spilling over to foreign patients in unintended ways. I could very well imagine some of the marginal cost of an operation on a non-resident American citizen also being carried by the state in other ways.

Two anecdotes, logical consequences of this system.

1) My (poor by US standards) 90 years old neighbour had a hip replacement at the age of 86, 100% paid by the state.

2) An aunt working as a nurse told me about a phenomenon that was quite common until a few years ago: "winter rabbits", old people "dumped" into hospital for several weeks even if they were not ill. Relatives dumped them at the hospital as a (to them) low cost way of getting rid of them for a few weeks while on holiday for example.

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#12
post #8
post #3

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of what really accounts for the majority of the price differences. This article mentions some things in passing but ultimately doesn't conclude with the main quantitative insights.

Most of the difference here is that our hospitals have to fob off the money they lose from treating patients without health care onto those that do. They charge a lot more because every 5th or 6th person coming into the emergency room has no health care, must be given treatment, and will never be able to pay for it. Thus, we all take on that burden through a backdoor, round the corner, through the mailslot, rather th…

That doesn't really explain how the healthcare can cost 5x or more. What you've said is that every 5th or 6th person is a free rider (presumably due to laws such as the COBRA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Rec...) ... if that was the source of the added costs, it would suggest they would only be 1.2 or 1.5x higher, not 5x or more.

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#13
post #5

Who's interesting in doing a healthcare tourism startup? Especially if you know the medical system well. Serious. Hit me up. My wife has gone to Russia twice for dental work (her home country). Was a fraction of the quotes here, including airfare.

I second the idea. Had lots of dental work done in latin america a few years ago. Probably saved about 70% on dental costs + we had a nice vacation. What about liability?

While I agree that liability is important, it becomes less of an issue with treatment so much cheaper, especially for issues that do not threaten your ability to travel. If something goes wrong, you can still go for the 80% cheaper corrective treatment.

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#14
post #10
post #5

Who's interesting in doing a healthcare tourism startup? Especially if you know the medical system well. Serious. Hit me up. My wife has gone to Russia twice for dental work (her home country). Was a fraction of the quotes here, including airfare.

It could work if it was accredited/malpractice was covered somehow, then just make a hospital in Mexico or the Bahamas. Of course it would need to be less expensive than the USA, have better outcomes, and have the same level of legal responsibility...we are a very litigious nation.

Why a single hospital? Have a website which lists hospitals and reviews of people, the prices charged, and even the doctors who practice there. Then people could book the trips through the site, which would take a 5% cut.

Is this any good: http://www.treatmentabroad.com/medical-tourism/ratings-and-r...

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#15
post #2

So I get that by cutting out the insurer you are saving some funds, but where does the rest of the difference come from? Are the hospital rooms and surgeons so much cheaper because everyone in those countries pay them rather than just the few people who actually use their services?

The fundamental problem is that everyone in the system benefits from spiraling costs, and so they make them spiral in ever more egregious ways.

Everyone benefits? Well, higher costs are obviously better for hospitals and doctors, but don't insurers want to control costs? Not really. As long as insurers pass costs through, the more they pay, the more they can get away with charging, and the bigger their profits can be. Insurers want predictable and rising costs, not low ones.

How egregious is the inflation getting? Let me give you an example. From the mid-90s to now the cost of childbirth tripled. See http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/health/american-way-of-bir... for confirmation. In England there was controversy because the royal childbirth cost over 2x what the average childbirth there does. It still cost half the average US childbirth.

And no, Obama's plan does not address this issue. It says that insurance companies must spend at least 80% of premiums on health care. If I was an insurer, I'd look at this and see fraud as an opportunity to have the 20% slice which covers my costs and profits continue to rise, and put out effort to catch exactly enough fraud to keep the amount paid out at exactly 80% of the premiums that I collected.

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#16
post #5

Who's interesting in doing a healthcare tourism startup? Especially if you know the medical system well. Serious. Hit me up. My wife has gone to Russia twice for dental work (her home country). Was a fraction of the quotes here, including airfare.

It's a good idea... and also already a big thing. Look at all the AdWords for [dental vacation] and similar searches. Amish groups taking train rides to Mexico for dental work paid in cash is also apparently a thing.

It could be much bigger, across more procedures... but often people needing care are, by virtue of both age and their current medical worries (and past experiences with bad providers), less adventurous.

A big breakthrough would be if Congress, as a cost-saving measure, allowed Medicare payments for out-of-country treatment.

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#17
post #5

Who's interesting in doing a healthcare tourism startup? Especially if you know the medical system well. Serious. Hit me up. My wife has gone to Russia twice for dental work (her home country). Was a fraction of the quotes here, including airfare.

Everyone I know in Tucson already goes to Nogales for dental work.

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#18
post #14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could work if it was accredited/malpractice was covered somehow, then just make a hospital in Mexico or the Bahamas. Of course it would need to be less expensive than the USA, have better outcomes, and have the same level of legal responsibility...we are a very litigious nation.

Why a single hospital? Have a website which lists hospitals and reviews of people, the prices charged, and even the doctors who practice there. Then people could book the trips through the site, which would take a 5% cut. Is this any good: http://www.treatmentabroad.com/medical-tourism/ratings-and-r...

I'm a bit skeptical of crowdsourced ratings for this kind of thing, given the relatively poor quality (and frequent gaming) of ratings on sites like Yelp and Amazon.

Some objective information, like third-party-audited statistics on treatment outcomes, on the other hand, would be very valuable.

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#19
post #5

Who's interesting in doing a healthcare tourism startup? Especially if you know the medical system well. Serious. Hit me up. My wife has gone to Russia twice for dental work (her home country). Was a fraction of the quotes here, including airfare.

You could start with a list of procedures & average prices plus an AirBnB component,then mix it with a good deal finder for airfare.

*Personally I got major Dental surgery by a top doctor in Peru for ~ $300

Re: For Medical Tourists, Simple Math

#20
post #18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why a single hospital? Have a website which lists hospitals and reviews of people, the prices charged, and even the doctors who practice there. Then people could book the trips through the site, which would take a 5% cut. Is this any good: http://www.treatmentabroad.com/medical-tourism/ratings-and-r...

I'm a bit skeptical of crowdsourced ratings for this kind of thing, given the relatively poor quality (and frequent gaming) of ratings on sites like Yelp and Amazon. Some objective information, like third-party-audited statistics on treatment outcomes, on the other hand, would be very valuable.

Well great, you've got a problem a startup can solve :)
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