Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#61

Post by grey-area » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:27 AM UTC

wodenokoto wrote: post #55

mtgx wrote: post #9

Mistake #1: Pricing it over $600 unlocked. I know they feel very strongly about the 128 GB of storage, but if doing that meant pricing it over what seemed like the sweet spot of $600, then it was killer mistake. Mistake #2: Not making it dead clear that they can return your money if for whatever reason the phone doesn't get built or you don't like it. This is not typical of such crowdfunding campaigns, and everyone a…

The iPhone is priced at over 600usd unlocked. From 720usd in Hong Kong, which match US pricing very closely ( can't find it on apple's us store unlocked) I don't think it's naive to price a high end phone above what is essentially the most mainstream phone available. Which they didn't considering theirs have 128gb memory.

The iPhone is 849 USD unlocked for the 64GB model. Scroll down on this page after selecting a model:

http://store.apple.com/us/buy/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone...

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#62

Post by 6d0debc071 » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:39 AM UTC

Computer hardware has a low replacement rate. And this:

4Gb of RAM and 128Gb of storage.

Is simultaneously too much for a phone and around the low end for any computer released in at least the last half decade.

They've gone the wrong way, it seems to me. What was impressive was the fact that you could move your user environment around in your pocket. They chose to make the hardware a small computer to accomplish that though. People already have computers at their workplace already plugged in, they've either got laptops or desktops at their homes.

You're not just asking them to get another phone, you're asking them to replace their computers.

They've decided to compete in both the markets at once - and that only works if you can leverage needs that overlap at the same time in both markets that they don't natively address. Otherwise, you just end up crippling your ability to optimise for both markets as individuals and the natives in those areas eat you alive.

A saturated marketplace where people rarely replace their hardware and where your features aren't impressive, I suspect - might be wrong, does not have those features.

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#63

Post by phaemon » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:39 AM UTC

tarabukka wrote: post #60

phaemon wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Of course. Why else would Canonical have used the GPL for the software they'd developed? Why else would they release their OS for free? Profits have clearly never been their overriding reason for existence and they look very much like a social enterprise to me. See, this is why I hate cynicism: it's intellectually lazy. It doesn't bother looking at the actual detail of any particular case, just hand-waves away d…

The Amazon advertising fiasco? The commercial "Ubuntu Software Center"? The lack of upstream patches for many years? Debian maintainers and Red Hat wouldn't even thinking of pulling off that kind of junk. It's not about deeply analysing every possible motivation for every single thing involving them -- Canonical simply shows an attitude of taking from the open source community and not giving back.

The Amazon lens that everyone knew about and could be removed with one command? The whole thing was massively blown out of proportion, often by people who'd never even used Ubuntu.

What's wrong with selling commercial software? I could understand it if you were all about Open Source, but you're clearly not. Redhat certainly sell proprietary software solutions. Debian don't, but then that's their raison d'être.

They've given back a whole OS to people. They've released plenty of their own software under the GPL. Fine if you think that's not enough, but it's far more than many companies have done and accusing them of not giving back at all is flat out wrong.

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#64

Post by shubhamjain » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:39 AM UTC

tarabukka wrote: post #60

phaemon wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Of course. Why else would Canonical have used the GPL for the software they'd developed? Why else would they release their OS for free? Profits have clearly never been their overriding reason for existence and they look very much like a social enterprise to me. See, this is why I hate cynicism: it's intellectually lazy. It doesn't bother looking at the actual detail of any particular case, just hand-waves away d…

The Amazon advertising fiasco? The commercial "Ubuntu Software Center"? The lack of upstream patches for many years? Debian maintainers and Red Hat wouldn't even thinking of pulling off that kind of junk. It's not about deeply analysing every possible motivation for every single thing involving them -- Canonical simply shows an attitude of taking from the open source community and not giving back.

I don't think being a social enterprise should mean that they shouldn't make profits at all. Given that they their major income is from support and services, I am quite sure measures like amazon ads were quite inevitable. Not to mention how long they had survived without making any profit to get some presence in a dominant space ( Ubuntu ShipIt! Remember? ). Even if they make smart profits, doesn't change the idea of the company and why they exist.

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#65

Post by bwb » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:41 AM UTC

Kequc wrote: post #35

Lets see I can buy an Android phone for $300 that runs an operating system that is state of the art and one of the world's largest tech giants is currently spending a billion dollars developing. Or I can buy a $800 phone for neckbeards that runs Ubuntu, an operating system that hasn't made headway in approximately a decade.

best comment ever +999999999

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#66

Post by pestaa » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:44 AM UTC

6d0debc071 wrote: post #62

Computer hardware has a low replacement rate. And this: 4Gb of RAM and 128Gb of storage. Is simultaneously too much for a phone and around the low end for any computer released in at least the last half decade. They've gone the wrong way, it seems to me. What was impressive was the fact that you could move your user environment around in your pocket. They chose to make the hardware a small computer to accomplish that…

One could also argue they are discovering a niche (developers who need to get on the go really fast, really often), so they're entering a tiny fraction of one market only. I guess it all comes down to perspective.

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#67

Post by tuananh » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:58 AM UTC

They will def. miss the target. I read on Kickstart or somewhere. If a project fails to meet 30% of the target on first day (or so), project will most def fail.

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#68

Post by skaevola » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 11:13 AM UTC

MarcScott wrote: post #36

eterm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely missing the target would demonstrate a lack of demand? It's pretty hard to spin "We couldn't even get 30,000 contributers" asz success. Especially given the strong existing brand, the news coverage, etc.

Again, I'm speculating but; hitting 16m at around 800 a phone equates to 20,000 phones. That's 20k potential sales of a phone that doesn't exist, using an OS that's still in development, to a tiny subset of individuals willing to engage in crowd sourcing. That's pretty impressive if you ask me. Imagine how well a carrier-subsidised version would do?

20k is nothing. Smartphone manufacturers will laugh at you for fewer than hundreds of thousands. To get a good deal they want to see millions.

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#69

Post by mikegioia » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 12:28 PM UTC

charlesray wrote: post #59

I don't know why anyone would want to use an Ubuntu smartphone, excluding the obvious free software implications. It's guaranteed to be worse than virtually everything else on the market. And why would Canonical even want to get into this business. You're competing against Apple, Google, Microsoft and Blackberry. They cannot win.

What a naive, ignorant comment.

> I don't know why anyone would want to use an Ubuntu smartphone, excluding the obvious free software implications.

So... you do know why.

> It's guaranteed to be worse than virtually everything else on the market.

This is a personal guess you made.

> And why would Canonical even want to get into this business. You're competing against Apple, Google, Microsoft and Blackberry. They cannot win.

This is what I don't get from the HN community: you want to have your cake and eat it too. How many comments and posts over the last few weeks have been all about the NSA snooping on your data with these big corps handing everything over? Yet for some reason, you ONLY want Apple/Google/MS/BB to run the phone market!

They cannot win if the world was full of people who thought and acted like you, but I'd put my money that it isn't and that organizations like Canonical can (and should) compete against big tech companies.

Re: Ubuntu Edge will miss $32M crowdfunding target

#70

Post by arh68 » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 12:39 PM UTC

MarcScott wrote: post #37

Kequc wrote: post #35

Lets see I can buy an Android phone for $300 that runs an operating system that is state of the art and one of the world's largest tech giants is currently spending a billion dollars developing. Or I can buy a $800 phone for neckbeards that runs Ubuntu, an operating system that hasn't made headway in approximately a decade.

"an operating system that hasn't made headway in approximately a decade." I don't think Ubuntu existed a decade ago. So I think that from nothing to being one of (if not the most) popular Linux distros on desktops can probably be considered headway. "I can buy an Android phone for $300" Yes you can. It is unlikely to have 4Gb of RAM and 128Gb of storage though. "neckbeards" You got me. I'm going to go and shave.

> I think that from nothing to being one of (if not the most) popular Linux distros on desktops can probably be considered headway.

The last Ubuntu release I really liked was Hoary Hedgehog, but I can agree to disagree.

With a $300 android phone, I'd probably still have enough left over to buy a 4GB/128GB netbook. A $300 phone, a $300 netbook, and a $100 ssd only comes to $700.

Ubuntu Edge is just at a weird price point these days.