Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer? • Hacker News Board

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#191

Post by phyalow » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 4:37 AM UTC

nohuck13 wrote: post #120

I was working at one of the rival HFT's mentioned in the article when all this went down. I had some thoughts. -It's never ok to take proprietary code with you after quitting. I don't know anybody that would have thought that was OK, especially with the amount of money people were making off this IP in 2008. Of course that's true in any industry, but especially in trading. -That said, you can't just walk out the door…

nohuck13 - Can you email me on the address in my profile? I have a couple of questions regarding the industry. Thanks :P

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#192

Post by jlgreco » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 5:02 AM UTC

rollo_tommasi wrote: post #189

jlgreco wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I ever get "fuck you" money, I am going to entertain myself by renting billboard space around courtrooms urging jurors to Google "jury nullification". I figure there would probably be some entertaining fallout of some sort.

Given how jury nullification was traditionally used, that fallout will probably also include accusations of virulent racism. I'm not sure a lot of more libertarian types who advocate for jury-nullification are fully aware that the reason it was suppressed was that it was for decades a mechanism to basically let white guys kills black guys consequence-free.

This is one of the reasons "fuck you" money is necessary.

Jury nullification is a tool, it is not itself racist, though those who have other reasons to oppose it of course paint it as such. With "fuck you" money, much of that sort of slander loses its teeth.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#193

Post by pmorici » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 5:05 AM UTC

pigscantfly wrote: post #170

rollo_tommasi wrote: post #115

This article is also interesting in that the total blind trust McSwain put in Goldman's explanation of the situation really illustrates the typical mob hit-man mentality of most law enforcement agents. The Big Boss gives them a name and they take that guy out, no questions asked.

It's all down to laziness, IMO. That FBI agent could have done some research for verification and realized that Goldman was selling him an overblown story. What's the point, though; the courts will do their background research eventually, right? And by then they'll be arresting the next poor schmuck Wall Street doesn't want to lose to a competitor.

Or insider connections; I would bet that the people in charge of security at Goldman are probably former FBI, Secret Service, or similar background.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#194

Post by tehwalrus » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 7:48 AM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #161

tehwalrus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on a jury (robbery) in the UK. It's a crime to say, afterwards, what happened in a jury room in the UK.

So could you punch one of the other Juriors and get away with it, since they can't press charges?

ahh, it may only be "deliberations" that are protected. so you'd probably be able to say "he punched me!" but not why...

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#195

Post by timdev2 » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 8:15 AM UTC

BudVVeezer wrote: post #148

walshemj wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks take security v seriously even trying to plug a usb drive into you pc to copy files will be logged and will probably get you fired.

That must explain my bank's insistence on not having passwords greater than 9 characters, without spaces or most "special characters." They take security seriously!

Perhaps you're conflating the banks' security with that of their customers.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#196

Post by lmm » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 8:55 AM UTC

biero wrote: post #157

cowsandmilk wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what common open source licenses would require them to send changes upstream? Or really, what licenses would require them to release the modified code to the public? GPL requires you to make source code available to anyone who you distribute the program to. If you're just putting code on servers, there's no obligation. Even if you distribute internally, you usually are technically distributing to the company for inst…

Sorry to spread FUD, I was under the impression that non-OSI compliant licenses sometimes made this requirement, but I can't find any actual examples so maybe it was an overly cautious question I was always answering 'no' to to get import approval.

The Netscape Public License is the only one I'm aware of. But it's not OSI-compliant (and thus, to most people, not open source) and I'm not aware of anyone still using it.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#197

Post by lmm » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 9:23 AM UTC

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #91

vidarh wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only true if they distribute the code, is it not?

IANAL, but I don't think so. Practically, probably; legally, unknown. > The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. That makes it sound like ripping the license out and replacing it with a proprietary one, even for purely internal use, is probably a bad idea. I don't know who'd be able to sue them for that, though, if the original copy…

Copyright only applies when you distribute something. With your internal copy of something that you don't redistribute you can modify it however you like, and the GPL or any other copyright license never gets a chance to apply.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#198

Post by stdgy » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 9:23 AM UTC

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #39

This makes me angry. Not just the story itself, but the way VF goes about telling it, which commits the same sins (albeit with better intent) as Goldman Sachs. "So-called 'subversion repository'?" Why don't we just accuse him of summoning demons while we're at it?

I thought that was supposed to be sarcastic, poking fun at the terminology as viewed from the non-tech savvy jury and FBI agents. Though, as always, that's not an easy thing to tell online.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#199

Post by nohuck13 » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 9:45 AM UTC

appdeveloper wrote: post #151

nohuck13 wrote: post #120

I was working at one of the rival HFT's mentioned in the article when all this went down. I had some thoughts. -It's never ok to take proprietary code with you after quitting. I don't know anybody that would have thought that was OK, especially with the amount of money people were making off this IP in 2008. Of course that's true in any industry, but especially in trading. -That said, you can't just walk out the door…

I agree- it's not okay to take proprietary code. But criminal charges and an 8 year sentence? Totally disproportionate.

Oh, agreed. I was surprised at the attitude that taking code might be a commonplace thing. Didn't mean to defend the punishment.

Re: Did Goldman Overstep in Criminally Charging Its Ex-Programmer?

#200

Post by perlpimp » Sat, Aug 03, 2013, 10:00 AM UTC

zeteo wrote: post #48

The justice system is, of course, still in the business of catching and punishing murderers, thieves and such. But, with the decline in crime since the early '90s, this side of their activity is becoming increasingly supplemented by a different game altogether: enforcing a growing set of complex laws against practically everything [1]. There is a lot of prosecutorial discretion in choosing which of these laws to enfo…

Always ask for immunity or ask them repeatedly to rephrase their questions as a vehicle of supporting a useless conversation. Until they bring papers for you to sign immunity, tell them that you do not understand and tell them to explain it differenty because you do not understand.

You can be held for 24 hours than you have to be released. After you are released make sure to find strongly worded complaint that whoever you dealt with overstepped their boundaries. Scan then submit it. Put up a scan on your website and link all relevant resources that have been used to harass you and jail you for that period of time. Add diquis or some other commenting service and roll with it.