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NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

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Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#211

Post by mpyne »

IanDrake wrote: post #79

>the four-star general presented a timeline of terrorist attacks around the world, from the 1993 World Trade Center bombing to the Boston Marathon attack . Can anyone speak as to why, with the NSA's systems, they were not able to thwart an attack by the ass clowns in Boston? Russia even warned us about them and they made frequent contact with foreigners. I'm sorry, but that terrorist event seems like low hanging frui…

Because the NSA is dedicated toward detecting and gaining intel on organized terror collectives abroad.

Domestic terrorism is domestic and therefore under the FBI's purview. And despite what Snowden seems to think about mind-reading programs, unless either brother put out on the public Internet or phone communications what they were planning to do, there would have been no way for NSA to pre-emptively detect it even if they were warrantlessly monitoring all domestic communications.

So in a way your question is equivalent to asking why ASLR didn't stop that CSRF attack on the web page you just viewed.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#212

Post by cookiecaper »

tlrobinson wrote: post #183
cookiecaper wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proper analog is a letter v. a postcard. There is no reasonable expectation that the contents of a postcard will remain private -- the message is right there, and people will see it even accidentally. A typical plaintext packet is the same way. Stuffing your papers in a sealed envelope is analogous to passing your plaintext through an encryption algorithm. If you are "vibrating the air" in public, then yes, you s…

The problem is people don't necessarily know know they're sending a postcard when they think they're sending a sealed envelope.

This is a great opportunity for education, then, correct? Tools have existed that would ameliorate this entire issue for a long time. We need to get people to start using them!

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#213

Post by frenger »

cookiecaper wrote: post #133
vijayboyapati wrote: post #99

Funny how Alexander says he's read the Constitution, and implores the heckler to do the same. If one can read the Constitution and square the NSA's mass surveillance with the 4th amendment then one can square a circle. There really is no point in debating people like this on the technicalities of the Constitution. What they understand is power. He has it and we don't. He knows how to pull the levers that matter, and…

The NSA is filtering a public utility. The users of this utility choose what information they want to broadcast, and should do so with the full knowledge that this information is being bounced between dozens of routers every time it goes out, any one of which may be monitored by its owners. This information ultimately ends up at the destination IP address, whose owner is able to use this data in whichever manner he s…

> The problem is that people foolishly assume that the plaintext packets they send online are private by default The NSA are trying to decrypt encrypted messages too though, tapping VPNs etc. It's not like they're just surveilling plaintext comms.

> people foolishly assume Yes those ignorant fools deserve everything they get for not being security enthusiasts, and for assuming good faith on the part of their government, right?

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#214

Post by greedo »

mikeash wrote: post #161
narrator wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We invaded and occupied Iraq and didn't even get any oil, just a trillion or so in national debt. At least in the time of Rome citizen soldiers were titled large swaths of land in the conquered territories. The trillions in national debt benefits somebody. Somebody somewhere gets those interest payments and they wouldn't have if the U.S had not borrowed from them.

Yes, but the cost far outweighs the benefits. The world (and the economy) is not a zero-sum game. People usually say that when they want to state that value can be created, but it cuts both ways. The fact that it's not a zero-sum game means that value can be destroyed. We blew a trillion bucks on nothing useful. That's destroyed value. That somebody is benefitting in some small way from the side effects of this doesn…

A car is a depreciating asset, so all crushing it does is accelerate its depreciation. Some utility is lost, but you also have to consider the impact of the 10k. Some went to steel mills, to workers, to dealers, etc. It's not like burning a stack of $100 bills.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#215

Post by numo16 »

mpyne wrote: post #210
saraid216 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. That's roughly what philosophy courses are meant to do. They fire a shotgun round into the air to show you as much variance and disagreement between cogent and prominent thinkers and then ask, "So... what do you think?" (Speaking solely in terms of American education,) Literature classes also do this to a smaller extent. In elementary schools, more so but it's supposed to be done in social studies... whic…

I agree completely. I took Ethics as an elective during my C.S. undergrad and I think it's still in the top 3 of the most-formative individual courses of study I've ever undertaken. I'd highly highly recommend people take ethics or philosophy classes, if only to see how even the simplest scenarios can have complex dilemmas.

I had a Philosophy of Ethics course during my C.S. undergrad that was actually taught by a former member of the Michigan House of Representatives. He would discuss the kind of things he had to make decisions on during his time there, regarding the different points of view he had to take into account from an ethics perspective, and then have an open dialog with the class to discuss the different facets of the subject. Was a very interesting class that gave some interesting perspective.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#216

Post by fluidcruft »

wpietri wrote: post #170
narrator wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We invaded and occupied Iraq and didn't even get any oil, just a trillion or so in national debt. At least in the time of Rome citizen soldiers were titled large swaths of land in the conquered territories. The trillions in national debt benefits somebody. Somebody somewhere gets those interest payments and they wouldn't have if the U.S had not borrowed from them.

If one were especially paranoid, one could note that the massive increase in debt from the Iraq war makes the "starve the beast" approach to government [1] much more plausible. I don't think the US far right is quite that farsighted or quite that cynical. However, I've historically been too optimistic about the American power elite, so I wouldn't take my word for it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

Oh, come on. Bush went into office to starve the beast from day 1, and that's what we were all talking about when he rammed is stupid tax cuts through congress. That's what was going on when Senators were flipping from R to D until he was distracted by 9/11.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#217

Post by dclowd9901 »

pyrocat wrote: post #109
fragsworth wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's missing are leaders (aka media) evaluating and promoting policies based on rationality reasoning rather than what emotional ploys that sell. Leaders in media have no external incentive to promote rationality. They make money by appealing to their audience, to increase the size and loyalty of that audience. There is no solution.

Don't make the news beholden to ratings.

Wrong. Make the news so popular that ratings aren't even a question. You do this by educating your constituency.
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