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Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

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Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#51

Post by roel_v »

D9u wrote: post #29
wildster wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40g a month is a lot more than I thought that a government would go for. 28g is a ounce.

40 grams per month is slightly more than one joint a day. Some people consume more than that, some less, but 40 grams a month is nowhere near the amount held by dealers.

In systems where production is allowed, cannabis sativa is bred to be much higher potency and quality than what is available on most underground markets across the world. While 40 grams is obviously much less than what is held by dealers, it is more than what even heavy users of high-quality marijuana consume over a month. With THC content of some Dutch varieties now approaching 15% (although the content of generally available products in coffee shops has trended slightly downward over the last few years), consuming a gram a day is in the 'knocked out for 12 of 14 waking hours' territory.

(note: not a user, Netherlands-living amateur drug policy and enforcement researcher)

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#52

Post by dzhiurgis »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #21
plorkyeran wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it works for alcohol in several countries, and while I don't think any of them have managed to show any actual benefits from doing it that way, it's also not a total disaster.

It's awful for beer, for one example. It means that breweries can only produce things for mass markets. Governments demand a base amount of each single item so that they can create and meet demands. They won't take special, small-batch items, because they're looking to stock shelves all over. This drastically alters what breweries are able to experiment with (if at all). If you view marijuana as a commodity item, the…

Many people love nice ales, wines or whiskeys, but the bottom line is - all of them are meant to intoxicate you. Therefore, I would be a bit dubious whether it is really ethical to make something seem less dangerous. It's just like selling chocolate cigarettes to children, surely it builds some sort of mental image of cigarettes being good.

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#53

Post by dzhiurgis »

plorkyeran wrote: post #16
JoshTriplett wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrasing suggests that the state does the actual selling, which seems fundamentally broken. Regulate, sure, but don't become part of the market you're regulating.

That's how it works for alcohol in several countries, and while I don't think any of them have managed to show any actual benefits from doing it that way, it's also not a total disaster.

Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland and apparently some parts of Canada have government owned shops. I guess it's all to inflate the price to the ridicule in an attempt to reduce the consumption. Can't blame them, they do indeed drink a lot.

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#54

Post by roel_v »

eshvk wrote: post #27
qwertzlcoatl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the Netherlands had so few criminals that it had to shut down several prisons and lay off hundreds of staff members and started importing criminals from other countries like Belgium on a contract basis because of the lack of people to incarcerate. [1] This is the country where you could just drive into its capital and buy every strain of cannabis you can possibly imagine and different strains of psilocybin…

I am not clear how there is a causal link between the two. Are you saying that legal weed/shrooms causes crime to go down? Or are you merely pointing a correlation?

It's quite obvious that when you decriminalize something, the crime rate will go down, since the people doing that thing are not criminals any more. (n / m) But even apart from that (because it's a cooking-the-books level trick, really), decriminalization of drug use has other effects that lower crime rates. For example: keeping up a heroin habit is hard when you need to pay black market rates (€100 / $150 per day). So often, these people need to resort to burglary, robberies or prostitution. Regulating the market drives the prices way down (you could have retail prices for a brick of coke that are the same as that of a package of coffee if you'd let the market work unrestrained), which causes people to not have to resort to crime to fund their habits.

(note: not advocating unregulated heroin or cocaine markets, just stating the obvious socio-economic implications of prices within the bounds of affordability for regular people with a regular job, leaving aside their ability to do said job)

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#55

Post by dagw »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #21
plorkyeran wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it works for alcohol in several countries, and while I don't think any of them have managed to show any actual benefits from doing it that way, it's also not a total disaster.

It's awful for beer, for one example. It means that breweries can only produce things for mass markets. Governments demand a base amount of each single item so that they can create and meet demands. They won't take special, small-batch items, because they're looking to stock shelves all over. This drastically alters what breweries are able to experiment with (if at all). If you view marijuana as a commodity item, the…

They won't take special, small-batch items

Don't know about how it works in general, but that definitely isn't true in Sweden. Individual stores must carry a certain 'standard' stock, but beyond that they are free to stock whatever products they want in, and it's not uncommon to see small orders of only a half dozen bottles of something obscure. And even if your local store doesn't stock some particular thing you want, they will always be happy to try to order a couple of bottles for you.

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#56

Post by phaemon »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #52
wahnfrieden wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's awful for beer, for one example. It means that breweries can only produce things for mass markets. Governments demand a base amount of each single item so that they can create and meet demands. They won't take special, small-batch items, because they're looking to stock shelves all over. This drastically alters what breweries are able to experiment with (if at all). If you view marijuana as a commodity item, the…

Many people love nice ales, wines or whiskeys, but the bottom line is - all of them are meant to intoxicate you. Therefore, I would be a bit dubious whether it is really ethical to make something seem less dangerous. It's just like selling chocolate cigarettes to children, surely it builds some sort of mental image of cigarettes being good.

The major difference between selling chocolate cigarettes to children and selling me an interesting tasting ale, is that I am not a child. I am more capable than you are of deciding what is best for me.

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#57

Post by deepvibrations »

GFischer wrote: post #3

Well, I'm from Uruguay, so I'll be glad to answer any questions on the subject :) The bill was proposed by the governing left wing Broad Front coalition, and voted by all their congressmen. While the vote appears close, there was more consensus than is shown. My party (Partido Independiente, the smallest of the four represented) decided not to vote the whole bill, but only some parts, because they're for legalization…

Were any details given about growing it for your own use?

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#58

Post by tincholio »

roel_v wrote: post #54
eshvk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not clear how there is a causal link between the two. Are you saying that legal weed/shrooms causes crime to go down? Or are you merely pointing a correlation?

It's quite obvious that when you decriminalize something, the crime rate will go down, since the people doing that thing are not criminals any more. (n / m) But even apart from that (because it's a cooking-the-books level trick, really), decriminalization of drug use has other effects that lower crime rates. For example: keeping up a heroin habit is hard when you need to pay black market rates (€100 / $150 per day).…

> (n / m) Looks like you got that reversed

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#59

Post by roel_v »

tincholio wrote: post #58
roel_v wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite obvious that when you decriminalize something, the crime rate will go down, since the people doing that thing are not criminals any more. (n / m) But even apart from that (because it's a cooking-the-books level trick, really), decriminalization of drug use has other effects that lower crime rates. For example: keeping up a heroin habit is hard when you need to pay black market rates (€100 / $150 per day).…

> (n / m) Looks like you got that reversed

Whoops you're right - I meant (n - 1) / m < (n / m).

Re: Uruguay moves to legalize marijuana

#60

Post by GFischer »

werid wrote: post #46
GFischer wrote: post #3

Well, I'm from Uruguay, so I'll be glad to answer any questions on the subject :) The bill was proposed by the governing left wing Broad Front coalition, and voted by all their congressmen. While the vote appears close, there was more consensus than is shown. My party (Partido Independiente, the smallest of the four represented) decided not to vote the whole bill, but only some parts, because they're for legalization…

> My party decided not to vote the whole bill, but only some parts how does this work? if some parts get enough votes they are turned into law, but the rest of the bill scrapped?

I'm not sure how it works, sorry. I think it's more a political statement, and paving the way for a new bill that includes those.
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