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Sweden Runs Out of Garbage With Waste-to-Energy

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Re: Sweden Runs Out of Garbage With Waste-to-Energy

#121

Post by prawn »

twoodfin wrote: post #63
philsnow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's inefficient to do 10+ cans per person. I think he means that there are 10 cans for the entire condo complex. Also, forcing individual _taxpayers_ to sort trash really keeps environmentalism in the forefront of voters' minds, which I imagine makes it much easier to keep environment-friendly legislation and public works projects going. Consider the opposite extreme, having a single bin that absolutely everything…

Also, forcing individual _taxpayers_ to sort trash really keeps environmentalism in the forefront of voters' minds, which I imagine makes it much easier to keep environment-friendly legislation and public works projects going. It would sure keep it in the forefront of my mind, but not in the way I think you'd like! More: "How can I get rid of the politicians who force me into this menial waste of time?" I will happil…

In which case you charge for rubbish collection on a combination of weight/volume and make it a premium for unsorted refuse. That gives people a choice. Pay the premium if they want someone else to do it, or take extra care themselves and save a bit of money.

I think in Paris (?) they have some underground storage for recycling on street corners. Someone was telling me about that when I was there.

In New Zealand (and some other places), garbage is put out in plastic bags - only official bags are picked up - and you pay per bag used.

Incentives to minimise hard-to-recycle waste could be a good thing.

Re: Sweden Runs Out of Garbage With Waste-to-Energy

#122

Post by prawn »

mhb wrote: post #62
philsnow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's inefficient to do 10+ cans per person. I think he means that there are 10 cans for the entire condo complex. Also, forcing individual _taxpayers_ to sort trash really keeps environmentalism in the forefront of voters' minds, which I imagine makes it much easier to keep environment-friendly legislation and public works projects going. Consider the opposite extreme, having a single bin that absolutely everything…

It's counterintuive to me that forcing people to sort their trash will lead to a fondness for recycling. Did the draft engender a fondness for the Vietnam war? A different approach would be to charge people for trash pickup. If the cost for sorted trash removal is enough of a savings, then people will do it.

It's worked in Australia IMO. Everyone takes recycling a lot more seriously than 10+ years ago when it was first on the radar. It's natural now and is done without thinking.

Re: Sweden Runs Out of Garbage With Waste-to-Energy

#123

Post by enupten »

belorn wrote: post #76
philsnow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's inefficient to do 10+ cans per person. I think he means that there are 10 cans for the entire condo complex. Also, forcing individual _taxpayers_ to sort trash really keeps environmentalism in the forefront of voters' minds, which I imagine makes it much easier to keep environment-friendly legislation and public works projects going. Consider the opposite extreme, having a single bin that absolutely everything…

> Also, forcing individual _taxpayers_ to sort trash really keeps environmentalism in the forefront of voters' minds, which I imagine makes it much easier to keep environment-friendly legislation and public works projects going. Indeed. I always get a bit surprised when I see visiting people throwing cans out of the car window, or a plastic wrapper while walking down the street. I guess its a wonder that they only re…

Wait, you're saying I left India for this!

Re: Sweden Runs Out of Garbage With Waste-to-Energy

#124

Post by prawn »

alipang wrote: post #39
lutorm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... an article which of course assumes that the costs of the (not spelled out) alternatives are zero... My parents do this and it's not like it's very onerous.

Well, the point he makes is that the same is true for the other statistics. It'd probably be cheaper environmentally for a garbage truck to pick up all your garbage for instance, rather than each person traveling to the recycling center themselves.

In Australia, virtually no one travels to the "recycling center themselves" - we have three bins (green waste, recyclables [paper/card/plastics/tins/etc], general). General waste is picked up from the kerb each week, while the other two are picked up on alternate weeks. Even accounting for the more frequent pick-ups of general waste, I still produce more recycling (wine bottles, etc) or green waste (weeding, pruning, etc) than general rubbish.

Re: Sweden Runs Out of Garbage With Waste-to-Energy

#125

Post by abalone »

The dirty secret here is CO2 emissions. Everything Sweden does to cut down waste to begin with is awesome. But of course you're going to run out of trash if you BURN EVERYTHING LEFT.

What marks this as a puff piece is the lack of honesty around CO2. The only place they mention it is in comparing it to.. generating the same amount of power from burning oil. It is spun as a way to reduce CO2, because look at all the oil we aren't burning. But this is a disingenuous comparison.

A proper comparison would pit burning trash against renewable energy sources that don't produce greenhouse gases. Nowhere do they even let on that incinerating trash is anything but a total positive for the environment.

There are other signals that this is a PR piece. They note that they've reduced "emissions" by 90-99 percent. Sounds like a miracle. But if you look closely and read all the details.. they don't count CO2 as an "emission".

Source (that the article is based on): http://www.avfallsverige.se/fileadmin/uploads/forbranning_en...

Re: Sweden Runs Out of Garbage With Waste-to-Energy

#127

Post by millstone »

prawn wrote: post #121
twoodfin wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, forcing individual _taxpayers_ to sort trash really keeps environmentalism in the forefront of voters' minds, which I imagine makes it much easier to keep environment-friendly legislation and public works projects going. It would sure keep it in the forefront of my mind, but not in the way I think you'd like! More: "How can I get rid of the politicians who force me into this menial waste of time?" I will happil…

In which case you charge for rubbish collection on a combination of weight/volume and make it a premium for unsorted refuse. That gives people a choice. Pay the premium if they want someone else to do it, or take extra care themselves and save a bit of money. I think in Paris (?) they have some underground storage for recycling on street corners. Someone was telling me about that when I was there. In New Zealand (and…

Does requiring people to sort their trash actually work? What sort of feedback and enforcement is in place?

Where I live in California, we are given a large recyclables bin and a small trash bin, with the option to pay more for a larger trash bin. This sounds like an incentive to recycle, but it's a perverse one. If I were to just put all my trash in the recycle bin, there would be no consequences at all for me, because the recyclables truck just dumps it all into a big communal heap, with no possibility to trace it back to me. Is this cardboard too wet to recycle? Who knows? In it goes!

Re: Sweden Runs Out of Garbage With Waste-to-Energy

#128

Post by Larrikin »

mhb wrote: post #62
philsnow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's inefficient to do 10+ cans per person. I think he means that there are 10 cans for the entire condo complex. Also, forcing individual _taxpayers_ to sort trash really keeps environmentalism in the forefront of voters' minds, which I imagine makes it much easier to keep environment-friendly legislation and public works projects going. Consider the opposite extreme, having a single bin that absolutely everything…

It's counterintuive to me that forcing people to sort their trash will lead to a fondness for recycling. Did the draft engender a fondness for the Vietnam war? A different approach would be to charge people for trash pickup. If the cost for sorted trash removal is enough of a savings, then people will do it.

Instead of charging, they simply just leave the trash on the curb if they notice it has too much of the wrong type of garbage in it. Its a little annoying having so many different days when trash needs to be taken out, but sorting it isn't that annoying once you start doing it for a month or so.
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