Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 29 posts

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#11

Post by silentbicycle »

coffeemug wrote: post #6
michael_dorfman wrote: post #3

Interestingly (with reference to another thread), "solitary confinement" is a necessary requirement of some forms of meditation. Of course, that confinement is by choice, and of a duration chosen by the participant. There's no doubt that the lack of communication has an effect on the brain; whether this effect is always deleterious seems disputable.

That's the beauty of the whole thing. I've seen grown men who appear to be perfectly happy break down and cry like children after only three days of meditation. Isolation puts you in very close contact with yourself. You can't distract yourself any longer, so you're left with your own thoughts, repeating delirious patterns, second guessing yourself, second guessing your life, and your environment. If you do meditatio…

It also makes a tremendous difference when isolation is voluntary, versus being held prisoner in solitary confinement.

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#12

Post by bulanga »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #3

Interestingly (with reference to another thread), "solitary confinement" is a necessary requirement of some forms of meditation. Of course, that confinement is by choice, and of a duration chosen by the participant. There's no doubt that the lack of communication has an effect on the brain; whether this effect is always deleterious seems disputable.

yes I thought the same and it reminded me of this video by Matthieu Ricard:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1424079446171087119...

More specifcally at this point: 37 min 23 sec he shows a picture of a grinning monk who's just come out of 6 years of meditation. He seems to have had a rather pleasant time.

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#13

Post by alfredb »

plinkplonk wrote: post #2

I found this part interesting. "Many prisoners find survival in physical exercise, prayer, or plans for escape. Many carry out elaborate mental exercises, building entire houses in their heads, board by board, nail by nail, from the ground up, or memorizing team rosters for a baseball season. McCain recreated in his mind movies he’d seen. Anderson reconstructed complete novels from memory. Yuri Nosenko, a K.G.B. defe…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Royal_Game

The story of Yuri Nosenko looks very similar to the main protagonist of Zweig's last book, written in 1942. A must read about solitary confinement, about chess, about the Nazis, about a lot of things actually.

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#14

Post by mkelly »

swombat wrote: post #7
HalcyonMuse wrote: post #4

"Everyone’s identity is socially created: it’s through your relationships that you understand yourself as a mother or a father, a teacher or an accountant, a hero or a villain." This drew my attention in particular. Is this true for all people, truly, including devout introverts, or is it merely a generalization? Does it perhaps have varying degrees of applicability based on how intro- or extroverted someone is?

I don't think it's a matter of introversion vs extroversion. Also, I don't think it's generally true. Certainly, a large part of our identity is socially created. Yet, at the same time, there is a pretty large kernel that's there whether or not we're in our usual social circles, whether or not we change our career, location, etc. And, for some, that kernel is more important than the socially-dependent aspects. I'd ad…

I'm unsure how this "kernel" isn't socially created too.

Whether we decide to act like those around us, or different than them, is irrelevant. The article is saying that just having someone around us to interact with in some way is vital for our brain to even function.

Introverts still have plenty of social interaction -- maybe not in the small area of recreational socialization that gets so much attention from extroverts, but our society is still made up of a bunch of people. You have to interact with them to do much of anything.

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#15

Post by mkelly »

silentbicycle wrote: post #11
coffeemug wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the beauty of the whole thing. I've seen grown men who appear to be perfectly happy break down and cry like children after only three days of meditation. Isolation puts you in very close contact with yourself. You can't distract yourself any longer, so you're left with your own thoughts, repeating delirious patterns, second guessing yourself, second guessing your life, and your environment. If you do meditatio…

It also makes a tremendous difference when isolation is voluntary, versus being held prisoner in solitary confinement.

Agreed. A lot of the "defiant" behaviors of the prisoners seemed to be efforts to exert some control over their environment. Also, the newer British system allowed more control in addition to less confinement.

I wonder if there's much overlap at all between the psychological effect of voluntary solitude and forced solitude.

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#16

Post by [deleted] »

zackattack wrote: post #5
HalcyonMuse wrote: post #4

"Everyone’s identity is socially created: it’s through your relationships that you understand yourself as a mother or a father, a teacher or an accountant, a hero or a villain." This drew my attention in particular. Is this true for all people, truly, including devout introverts, or is it merely a generalization? Does it perhaps have varying degrees of applicability based on how intro- or extroverted someone is?

No, it's not true for all people. The vast majority of people have socially-created identities, but a very small percentage of people can consciously strive to ground their identities in something else, e.g., the here and now. Devout introverts still likely have socially created identities. The applicability varies based on the degree of conscious effort applied to change identity.

[deleted]

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#17

Post by dcurtis »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #10

The keyword here is Freewill. I think you could isolate for months if it is your own choice. But if you are forced to be isolated for 3 hours it makes a huge difference.

This reminds me of a guy named Tehching Hsieh, who voluntarily isolated himself in a cage in his New York City apartment for a year. The cage and pictures of him are on display at MoMA.

http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/322

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#18

Post by rjurney »

plinkplonk wrote: post #2

I found this part interesting. "Many prisoners find survival in physical exercise, prayer, or plans for escape. Many carry out elaborate mental exercises, building entire houses in their heads, board by board, nail by nail, from the ground up, or memorizing team rosters for a baseball season. McCain recreated in his mind movies he’d seen. Anderson reconstructed complete novels from memory. Yuri Nosenko, a K.G.B. defe…

During 10 days of silence and meditation, I had entire movies play in my head, in great detail, line by line, scene by scene. Movies I could normally barely remember. I didn't have to try, it just happened. In fact I was trying not to think. My mind wanted any kind of content to play. I think it happens naturally.

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#19

Post by miguelpais »

This story made me thought not about the prisioners who obviously have reasons to get crazy, but rather on ourselves, so called hackers, who sometimes adopt by own choice a life style based on short human interaction. What can be the effects of that?

Even given the fact that we're usually very social beings in the virtual world, talking to a lot and developpping strong relationships over the web, what can be the affects of the lack of talking for example? Will we lose progressively our hability to express ideas by talking and getting stronger in the writing?

I think there aren't many studies on this kind of isolatio

Re: What Solitary Confinement Does to the Brain

#20

Post by joe_adk »

dcurtis wrote: post #17
rokhayakebe wrote: post #10

The keyword here is Freewill. I think you could isolate for months if it is your own choice. But if you are forced to be isolated for 3 hours it makes a huge difference.

This reminds me of a guy named Tehching Hsieh, who voluntarily isolated himself in a cage in his New York City apartment for a year. The cage and pictures of him are on display at MoMA. http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/322

Anyone remember the name of the Japanese game show where the comedian was locked in a room for (n) and had to win his way free via magazine giveaways? I always thought it was fake/marketing, but an interesting.
Post reply on HN