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XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

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Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#591

Post by bobwaycott »

kevinnk wrote: post #576
bobwaycott wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an incorrect characterization when referring to the Affordable Care Act, as that went through so many revisions and debate over such a long period, that anyone who did not read it has zero excuse (including the public who allows itself to be misinformed about its contents). But it's not quite unfair wrt the PATRIOT Act. There was widespread reporting, complaining, and outright indignation that the PATRIOT Act w…

The point is more that for most lawmakers there's not really a need to read all of the nitty gritty legal language. If you're a House Rep from Kansas who's core issue is corn subsidies, reading all of the PATRIOT Act isn't really going to do you much good. Instead, you read the summaries and listen to the opinion of the experts in your party who have read the whole act. It's important too to note that this isn't a "b…

You make some decent points. However, I'm still going to counter that 'the argument that not enough people read it'--i.e., proposed laws--is strong, not weak.

The point is that for all lawmakers, there is both a need and sworn obligation, in addition to national expectation, that they read all the nitty gritty legal language they are voting on, by which all Americans are bound to abide.

That's what lawmakers are there for--to know what in the hell they are passing as laws. If they can't be bothered to do their job--which, at the national level, goes far beyond just securing corn subsidies, because they're voting on legislation that touches on all Americans--then fuck 'em. Throw the bastards out on their asses, and send them back to the cornfields.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#592

Post by phaus »

afterburner wrote: post #450
s_q_b wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us. Again, I'll chime in as the resident apologist. The people working at Fort Meade are not evil. They truly believe they're doing a great service to the nation. They may be wrong, and they've certainly thrown privacy out…

I'm not American, so I'm wondering: was the public really actually behind the PATRIOT Act, or were they merely giving leeway in a time where everyone was supposed to go along? Or were you thinking that's the same thing? Same with the politicians; were they really for it, or simply incredibly afraid of the political suicide that would be the results of standing up against it? Because this was a time when people did no…

Yes, they really were behind it here in America. The overwhelming majority of the people on this planet are unamendably stupid.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#593

Post by uhMuricuh »

bobbydavid wrote: post #582
anon268 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have "friends" (read: we mostly argue about this) who fit your description. They will tell you that there are rules in place to prevent spying on Americans (and if you take a look at the Foreignness Factor screenshots, there is a sense in which this is true) They will also tell you that the benefits outweigh the cost. Here we have a system that has allegedly caught 300 terrorists, and they would tell you that spyin…

if you take as given that the NSA has prevented 300 9/11 attacks from occurring, you may feel it is justified. surely you don't believe the premise, but as a thought experiment pretend it were true. would the NSA actions be justified?

Okay, so if ~3,000 people died in the 9/11 attacks, and we prevented 300 of those, then that saves 900,000 people.

But in order to save 900,000 people, it required a bold attempt to eavesdrop on all ~1.3 billion people currently using the entire internet, leaving us with an efficiency of 0.1%.

Not only that, but the process needed to occur continuously, for a decade, ramping up, over time.

But wait! It took nearly 20 hijackers to accomplish one 9/11, so that means it only stopped 15 9/11's in a decade, or rather 1 and a half per year.

So that means we saved 4,500 people a year, by eavesdropping on over one billion each year.

But remember, when you tally up all those ten long years of life saving:

Those 45,000 people weren't just ordinary human beings...

They were Americans. They were Freedom.

And at the end of the day... well... ✼sniff!✼ I think you and I both know that you can't put a price... on FREEDOM.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#594

Post by bandushrew »

netrus wrote: post #133
RyanZAG wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of puts into perspective why they would coordinate such a massive raid on Megaupload. The target may not have even been the data - merely seizing the data puts anybody who has accessed the megaupload website as an easy target.

You crossed the tinfoil line. Copyright infringement was sufficient motivation for the actions taken. The megaupload raid was not okay, but I am pretty sure Hollywood was behind it, not the NSA.

Hollywood by itself had absolutely no chance of reaching across to new zealand and persuading the NZ police to break NZ laws to arrest him.

Just to be clear, Kim Dotcom was a NZ resident, and had broken no NZ laws.

At this point it would be a bold man who made the claim that the NSA had nothing to do with investigating a foreign person and/or their company, tracking that company's international internet usage, monitoring their involvement in possible illegal activities and providing that information to US authorities who could use it to reach out across the world and attempt to have that person extradited to the US.

In fact, I cannot understand for a second why you are trying to make that claim?

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#595

Post by Intermernet »

jcromartie wrote: post #277
kyro wrote: post #157

Is this information the NSA could've attained left to their own devices, or is this sort of stuff only accessible with help from service providers, eg Facebook and Google? What I'm trying to ask is: with all the hullabaloo Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc have made about individual, manual reviews of information requests, are we still being lied to? I suspect that we obviously haven't been told the whole story…

> are we still being lied to? The answer will always be "yes".

The answer will, in fact, always be "no". But they're lying.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#597

Post by budman »

Wow. Just Wow.

For years all of this was in the back of my mind as being capable but my not wanting to think like a conspiracy crackpot just dismissed the thought as it couldn't be possible. A conspiracy takes a lot of co-operation from within large corporations who must also remain it a secret. Surely someone would have a conscious and leak it? Or one of companies we all look up to as a modern example of do-good company would say "Hell NO" to the attempt and then let the world know what was attempted. Guess that was eventually proven true with Snowden (a real hero imo), just shocked they were able to operate to the scale they did for so long before a Snowden came along.

In my mind, this is not so much a shock to me regarding the NSA as well as the current evil government we have had in place. Doesn't take a genius to realize the president lies to our face on TV about trivial issues/promises, so expected for top secret stuff.

What is the BIG stomach churning shock to me is the very companies that we have come to know that are multi-billion dollar conglomerates providing service/products for millions for every day use has been a part of it. A part of this secret web while all the while proclaiming privacy for it users. I guess at end of day profits still rule the roost. "Just do this for us, turn a blind eye, and you get to go on making your billions". I wonder how many CEO's knew of all this. Gates? Zuckerburg? Etc etc.

I feel like I have no outs now. There are no alternatives to current establishment of companies that make our lives easier. Should we all wipe our PC's and use Linux, sell our phones and use Ubuntu Phone, not pay for SSL certs anymore (another mafia), etc?

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#599

Post by avdempsey »

general_failure wrote: post #464
Buzaga wrote: post #395

Yep I'm done, I'll just go about my life from now on... It's total power, I think it's unlikely that they'll want to give up on this kind of power, they'll probably keep signing governments and 'the tech' will eventually be exported and in the hands of governments everywhere, they'll keep building this and they'll create tons of algorythms of course because it's just too much data, any resistance can be crushed... an…

Totally agree. They are not going to give this up... and worse, we are not going to fight this. We are speaking up only because this is the internet. We just want to get on with our lives. Kinda surprising why all the people who are 'overwhelmed' and 'terrified' in the parent thread don't come out and protest. Oh wait, there's kids to feed. My bad, sorry. (no snark)

There may be a protest on Sunday near you: http://1984day.com

Many hands make light work.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#600

Post by cupcake-unicorn »

chakalakasp wrote: post #388
deveac wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you davej, fixed. That mistake is hard-coded in me. It won't be the last time I make it.

Great Googly Moogly this place is friendly. Like Reddit with a +7 CHR and +11 INT roll.

It's great, isn't it? :) I'm just scared some day it will wear off, like the state Reddit seems to be in now...
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