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Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

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Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#51
My first thought upon reading your problem was, "I have friends who are smart and fun. Why doesn't he get some of those?"

It almost sounds like you have two very black and white social circles: dry, boring 'smart' friends, and shallow, ignorant 'fun' friends. Maybe you are too picky and elitist, I can't say, but I've also hung around genuinely empty-headed party types, and it is a little soul destroying. I feel your pain.

Any way you could find something more in the middle?

I know tons of people who know how to have a good time, but also have a geeky side, if you want to call it that. They're mostly grad students in social sciences / humanities-type subjects. I almost take it for granted most of the people I meet are going to be fairly bright.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#52
There are several kinds of human-human relations in which dumbing yourself down are good thing. For example, in employee-employer relationship employee usually act dumber than his boss. Many women 'playing dumb' when it seems useful for them, especially when a man pays, and most of sales people doing this all the time.

But in some situations, you will probably hate it and will have an urge to be yourself - not act or adapt at all, and not see other people's acting. But this type of relationships is very hard to find. Usually what we got is a compromises, especially when in the middle age.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#53
FWIW, after reading the 40 or so comments posted so far, here are some of my thoughts, observations and things I've learned after submitting the original post (in no particular order):

1. Either there are very few people on HN who can relate to this "problem" (when I put something in quotes, it sometimes means I am doing so for the sake of brevity ie. I understand the implications and various connotations of a term but explaining that I do would take up to much time/space. Like now.), or they felt more compelled to comment on aspects of my post than post their own experiences. Both of these explanations echo what I've observed in the real world and on other sites

2. Intelligence is a very touch subject for many people. Many people chose to comment on my choice of using the phrase "dumbing down". I'm still trying to find a good choice of words that doesn't need to fill entire paragraph, and that can adequately express what I mean. I think the audience here plays a big role is choosing the correct phrasing.

3. I should spend more time thinking about the examples I cite. A few people based parts of their comments around the fact that I mentioned "strip club" (apparently sex still sells). I don't enjoy strip clubs at all. I mentioned it because a) it's true, b) I thought it would provide a good contrast. But more importantly, instead of spending time agonizing over examples (I spent quite a bit of time considering whether or not I should use the "10% of our brain" bit), perhaps I should try to express more clearly that I'm talking about patterns of behaviour, rather than individual occurrences.

4. I'm under no illusions - it's very, very difficult if not impossible to generalize human behaviour. People are different and they can interpret things in very different ways. Culture also plays a very big role. That's why I don't really expect to find the answer here or anywhere else. (Maybe there isn't an answer? Maybe this is a non-problem?) I just tend to look for patterns in responses and try to improve/change my own attitude, mindset, communication and relationships with people (if I do find great advice, it's a bonus). Most of the replies I've read have misinterpreted something I've said. That could be partly my fault and/or partly the reader's.

5. One can't really quantify aspects of social relationships objectively, so you resort to using qualifiers like "tend to", "many" (instead of "any"), and "probably" etc, rather than talking about "10% of the time", or "60% of my discussions". But considering that most people seemed to ignore these qualifiers, is this really the best way to express these ideas?

6. Believe it or not, I get along with people very well. I know about adapting to different situations and can do it with great ease, and I do recognize what I'm talking about as my own shortcoming rather than blaming others.

There are many other things but I think these are the most significant for now.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#54
post #26

Don't dumb yourself down. People will sense that you are not being yourself and you will be miserable anyway. I have made the same mistake myself in past and I have realised that often times people that you consider less 'intellectual' are capable of very stimulating conversation if given the right subject to talk about. The key is to not be condescending. People don't mind smart people, but they hate being made to f…

Yes, its all in approach. Two examples in regards to the 10% brain thing:

Someone: "You know, you only use 10% of your brain!"

You: "Actually, that has been debunked forever now. If you had just searched on Google you'd have known this. It's totally false, you use your entire brain yada yada yada."

vs.

You: "Yeah, someone I know told me that before and I thought it sounded really weird, so I googled around and found out that it turns out it's not actually entirely true! Pretty crazy, eh? It turns out, you use your entire brain yada yada"

The former is "you are dumb, if you used the internet or was as smart as me you'd know better" The latter is "hey friend, let me tell you a story about how I found out about how that's not true. You could have found this out too, but I'll save you the time and tell you what I uncovered."

More succinctly "You're dumb, I'm smart" vs "Check this out, friend."

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#56
Be the person you wish you were. Anyone who doesn't like it is not a friend you need. It is absolutely possible to have a very active social life and also have intellectually stimulating friends.

I have long tried to make a point to never dumb myself down for the sake of others. The people it scares away are the people that I want to scare away, because they offer nothing to me and I probably offer nothing to them. And the people who appreciate my kind of intelligence are the people I want to associate with.

If it feels dishonest, it probably is.

Edit: Also, move to Silicon Valley. It's full of people who like smarts.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#57
post #41

This is happening with me also. I'm a hacker (ok a developers) and my friends don't understand really what the web is, so I turn to spend 98% of my time in front of computer and avoid to go with them anywhere because their talk makes me headaches. However (few months ago) I did found a friend that really understand me (although being tech-savvy) and we are projecting for the summer. Keep searching, if in your area in…

Something that I've noticed is that this usually happens in "poorer" areas. What country are you from? I'm from South Africa, and most people down here don't even have a computer, let alone the internet.

My friends are different though, but they don't spend as much time on the internet as I do. There aren't any other software programmers in my group either.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#58
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me say: I think that getting a girlfriend who will up and tell you when you are being an ass (later on, in private) is one of the best things you can do! "Engineering Dance" -- Guilty as charged! Brilliant name for it.

I definitely agree on the girlfriend, but from my experience that's even more difficult than learning social graces. It takes a perceptive woman to realize that underneath is a really good guy that just needs some help. Young women are often as dense in their own way as hackers. It took me years and the experience of a bad marriage to become acceptable to a good woman.

Let's just keep in mind that young women and hackers are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#59
Around women: No, but I should, because even smart women find intelligence above IQ 130 to be sexually unattractive.

Around men: No, I don't care enough to do so, but I don't make a point of being smart either.

Regarding urban myths like "You only use 10% of your brain", everyone has heard those and believes some of them. I'm sure I have some wrong folklore in my knowledge base, and you probably do as well.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#60
post #16

My friend, you sound like my clone. I haven't really figured it out. We may just be doomed.

If possible, can you explain which parts of my post resonated with you most and how you would have put it in your own words? I'm trying to understand how I should communicate these sort of issues to other people.

Like you, I've put it into words many times with my family. I have my cool friends, but they're turned off and intimidated by intellectual conversations and they don't have anything useful to contribute anyway. On the other hand, my geeky friends consider some of my interests superficial.

In my dream world, I'd have friends I could go lift weights with, have a BBQ, get dressed up, go clubbing, and talk continuation/passing style and credit default swaps while we do it.

I don't think you should communicate these issues to other people. Which group wouldn't be offended? It certainly won't help anything.

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