Do Not Track is not respected on mozilla.org • Hacker News Board

Re: Do Not Track is not respected on mozilla.org

#111

Post by Nursie » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 10:19 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #98

Nursie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You are an agent entering my property. This is what your computer does when you access my site. No, no it does not. I'm not in your shop. I'm in my house. I requested some data from you, your server provided it. I'm under no obligation to do anything with that data at all, let alone allow you to execute arbitrary code on my computer because you feel like it's your right to. It's closer to mail order, both in fact…

That mail order business keeps a record of your transaction and uses transaction records in aggregate to figure out what to stock, when, in what quantity, and how to position products in its catalog. You don't have a right to opt out of that, nor do you have a right to opt out of a website owner recording the HTTP requests you send to it.

>> nor do you have a right to opt out of a website owner recording the HTTP requests you send to it.

And if that was what we were talking about then maybe, just maybe you'd have a point. But we're talking about active analytics scripts here.

Re: Do Not Track is not respected on mozilla.org

#112

Post by Nursie » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 11:11 PM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #104

Nursie wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I think OP meant that once you make a request to his server, his server is free to do what it wants with that request. I don't think they did mean that - "But you've politely requested that I don't track you. For starters this should only ever be a polite request, not a forced rejection of any tracking scripts. I have a right to track how people use my site." "People get way too offended by analytics tracking when…

I generally agree with you but I didn't read what he said that way. Just in the same sense that the browser has the right to avoid running javascript (or loading ads) that a server sends it, the server has a right to log requests the the client gives it (and certainly every server by default logs the IP, timestamp and request URL). I see it as 2 sides of the same coin. And though there are many analytics products tha…

OK, I don't disagree with you but I will refer you to the stuff I was replying to -

"For starters this should only ever be a polite request, not a forced rejection of any tracking scripts. I have a right to track how people use my site."

"People get way too offended by analytics tracking when it's there for their benefit."

And the followup by the same OP -

"I'm going to keep an eye on you as I see fit whilst you are in my shop. Surely you can see that as fair?

You are an agent entering my property. This is what your computer does when you access my site."

It seems clear to me that they feel entitled to have their scripts run on my computer. I have no issue with them checking their logs to see what I requested and when. Scripts, cookies, 0px images, each of these are mine to block as I see fit because I own the client, not them.

Re: Do Not Track is not respected on mozilla.org

#113

Post by teeja » Thu, Aug 01, 2013, 3:21 AM UTC

That discussion is full of the usual run-arounds.

The man scored a major point, and Mozilla has chosen to run away from it. The DNT flag, so far, looks just like the worthless piece of promotional fluff and 3-card Monte it is. ESPECIALLY if Mozilla chooses to run away from it.

We're going to need laws to protect us from the continual government AND corporate riot of people-tracking. The People don't like it, and once they get done with NSA in Congress, they might as well get busy on making tracking OPT-IN. Including cookies, browser finger-printing, stashing stuff in browser cache (disk AND memory), and the hundreds of other ways these geniuses have evolved to invade the social communication space to promote their bottom line. We badly need to have this discussion as a nation. Because its starting to run over our boot-tops.

Tracking could be limited to dot-coms. Then let the People decide whether to keep dot-coms in their bookmarks, or leave the rats to go down with their ship of fools.