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XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

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Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#531

Post by drivebypenis69 »

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #514
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, what a staggering misinterpretation of what the parent said.

Every time I post the truth about this NSA fiasco, I get: 1. Downvoted to oblivion by a hivemind, and 2. Somebody like you chimes in with a content-free emotional outburst. So exactly what did I misunderstand? The incontrovertible fact that this really isn't news? The fact that every history and exposé on the NSA has been saying this for decades? The fact that the NSA tried cramming the Clipper chip and key length re…

Don't worry, you're being downvoted by all the other "OUTRAGED" hackers who ignored all of the news that has been out about these programs for the last decade. Rather than confront the fact that they * have been downplaying the severity of this in the last two months and admit that maybe they ignored some of the news or didn't pay it attention, they contend it simply never existed.

The "The NSA is siphoning off the Internet on a huge scale" was a huge fucking story in Wired 5 years ago and no one gave two shits.

I'm sorry but "This is a complete surprise." is BS to anyone who's ACTUALLY been paying attention.

* Where "they" includes multiple noted HN names, often from the top list, that I've personally watched walk back their own denial of NSA programs in the last two months as more and more information has come out. Oh, and that guy that guy that did security for Google that just embarrassed himself a few weeks back has to feel really special now.

edit: Sorry, the Wired story was SEVEN years ago now. http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/04/70619

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#532

Post by bobwaycott »

afterburner wrote: post #450
s_q_b wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us. Again, I'll chime in as the resident apologist. The people working at Fort Meade are not evil. They truly believe they're doing a great service to the nation. They may be wrong, and they've certainly thrown privacy out…

I'm not American, so I'm wondering: was the public really actually behind the PATRIOT Act, or were they merely giving leeway in a time where everyone was supposed to go along? Or were you thinking that's the same thing? Same with the politicians; were they really for it, or simply incredibly afraid of the political suicide that would be the results of standing up against it? Because this was a time when people did no…

Many of us were, and still are, against it. Its passage was very questionable and suspicious, particularly regarding the lack of informed and reasonable debate on its requirements and broadly invasive permissions. It was passed overnight. There was word that many (most?) congresspersons did not even read the bill before passing it by a huge majority. It was emotionally charged and rational criticism was nearly non-existent before it was passed.

Only 66 Representatives voted against it--62 Democrats, 3 Republicans, 1 Independent. Only 1 Democratic Senator voted against it, while another Democrat abstained from the vote.

At the time the Act passed, Americans were in the midst of a fear frenzy. It was a pervasive culture of fear and panic, the likes of which I can only compare to anti-Soviet fears of the Cold War. People all over the country actually went to stores to buy all kinds of emergency and survival supplies to build up their own anti-terror kits (I forget the name for this that was popular at the time).

Many of us questioned Bush from the moment he was declared the winner of the 2000 election by the Supreme Court. We took part in protests all over the country after 9/11 to oppose the buildup to war in Iraq. I took part in protests in D.C. It was all ineffectual. Fear gripped the country and few paused to consider the long-term ramifications of the actions taken in September's wake.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#533

Post by bobwaycott »

kevinnk wrote: post #517
ISL wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public was behind doing something . Much of Congress didn't want to be seen as impeding something . It was obvious from the length of the act alone that even Congressional staffers couldn't have read it carefully between the time of submission and the time it passed. Quite a few people that I knew were weakly opposed, but the sunset provisions may have made it more palatable. It takes character to stand up and de…

>It was obvious from the length of the act alone that even Congressional staffers couldn't have read it carefully between the time of submission and the time it passed. This is a little off topic, but I always see this trotted out when people talk about big laws (like Obamacare, PATRIOT Act, etc) and it's not really true. Lawmakers usually work with and read a "normal language" version of laws that then gets transfor…

It is an incorrect characterization when referring to the Affordable Care Act, as that went through so many revisions and debate over such a long period, that anyone who did not read it has zero excuse (including the public who allows itself to be misinformed about its contents). But it's not quite unfair wrt the PATRIOT Act. There was widespread reporting, complaining, and outright indignation that the PATRIOT Act was never read by a majority of congresspersons who voted for it. It was so massive, that there was little time to actually read the legal language overnight.

Of course, I expect my lawmakers to actually read the legal language.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#534

Post by samstave »

bobwaycott wrote: post #524
samstave wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that we need to demonize the people who are in fact evil and deliberately built this out and got it going. That list is surprisingly short: GHW Bush GW Bush D Cheney D Rumsfeld C Rice G Clapper G Alexander P Wolfowitz These are the guys that created the orders that the soldiers are following, and the war they are dying in for these criminal's profits.

You forgot to add President Obama and other current leaders to the list. Expansion and utilization of these programs has also occurred during his administration. You're clearly being partisan.

I was talking specifically about the ones who setup the current situation. Clearly there is no argument that its been embraced and extended by the current puppet regime.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#535

Post by drivebypenis69 »

MichaelGG wrote: post #467
hannibal5 wrote: post #23

Just like suspected. If you use encryption like PGP, you become person of interest.

You've no information to back up that statement. Using PGP as part of a filter makes perfect sense. If you're looking for "bad guys" that do certain activities, as a starting filter , it doesn't hurt to say "OK, show me everyone in this region doing these activities. Now filter by language, etc. etc.". Just like if I was looking for gang members, I might start off a filter with "look for tattoos". It doesn't mean I'm…

Huh? It's been confirmed in this leak and others that using encryption greatly if not completely increases the chances of you being surveilled.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#536

Post by lukifer »

throow wrote: post #512
api wrote: post #376

I'm getting seriously irritated at the "I have nothing to hide" crowd. For starters, here are a few ways this can go horribly wrong: * Industrial espionage -- it's big business, and I'm sure it pays better than being an NSA analyst. * Foreign espionage -- since this gives unlimited querying power to every agent, a single "turned" agent could inflict massive damage on U.S. government and industry interests on behalf o…

I'm having the same problem as some other commenters here in that people don't seem to care about these hypothetical situations. They mostly trust the gov't to only track the "bad guys". Are there any good cases of the above-mentioned actually happening? Any other suggestions for responding to the nothing-to-hide argument?

My best counterargument for "nothing to hide": What do you think Nixon would have done with access to a limitless database of (effectively) every human on earth?

Privacy is important. But vastly more important is unaccountable power.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#537

Post by HNaTTY »

aspensmonster wrote: post #139

Slide 13 just got slightly redacted. http://imgur.com/a/SVerP#0

The 64. IP address on that slide is to Google (obviously), here's the other end:

GeoIP City Edition, Rev 1: PK, 08, Islamabad, N/A, 33.700001, 73.166702, 0, 0

5.157.65.58.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer mbl-65-157-5.dsl.net.pk.

23674 | 58.65.157.0/24 | MBL-AS | PK | NAYATEL.PK | MICRONET BROADBAND (PVT) LTD.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#538

Post by mcarlin »

samstave wrote: post #485
deveac wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I feel that the programs the NSA employs are profound existential threats to our liberty and rights, I do agree with you on the balance that the human parts that make up the whole of these organizations fundamentally see themselves as benign and beneficial on the balance. I think it bears mentioning, and its worthwhile to keep this in mind while we do the necessary work of attempting to dismantle and remove a l…

The issue is that we need to demonize the people who are in fact evil and deliberately built this out and got it going. That list is surprisingly short: GHW Bush GW Bush D Cheney D Rumsfeld C Rice G Clapper G Alexander P Wolfowitz These are the guys that created the orders that the soldiers are following, and the war they are dying in for these criminal's profits.

That's way too simple. Many people on that list belong on that list, but...

The American people overwhelmingly approved the Patriot Act, and the idea of surveillance, and the war on terror, and the actual wars on place.

The Obama administration resumed surveillance programs which had been previously shut down.

The military industrial complex has been growing steadily larger since the 1950s.

Congress people from both parties repeatedly approve the growth of the defense budget, and especially parts which gain them money and jobs for their own states and districts.

There are certainly people to demonize, but sorting them out from the well intentioned would be incredibly complicated.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#539

Post by russellsprouts »

totalforge wrote: post #186

Just a friendly reminder that if you looked at the slides, you have read a classified document, and therefore are guilty of a Federal felony. Cheers!

I don't think it's a felony unless you have signed a government agreement, like working as an NSA contractor.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#540

Post by samstave »

bobwaycott wrote: post #525
samstave wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing what I am saying, which firstly, is in no way party related. The people I listed have a decades long history which brought them to the US Coup of 9/11: Cheney in particular. The above are at the core of PNAC, the CIAs takeover of the executive branch (both Clinton and Obama are their puppets here) GHW Bush has been running shit since the 70s. Cheney setup the framework for the current MIC explo…

It is excessively naive and completely discredits your otherwise potentially salient points to suggest President Obama is a puppet. You're wading far too deeply into conspiracy territory to suggest that this puppet 'was meant to quell' anything. He is a leader whose administration stands and falls on its own merits.

I think it is naive to believe that each and every administration "stands and falls on its own merits" -- and then in the same breath talk about partisanship.

There is no party but the MIC party - and clearly, the NSA owns that party.

America has died, completely, 100%. There is no such thing as "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave"

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