Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 641 posts

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#481

Post by diydsp »

rohit89 wrote: post #244
skore wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can they feel good about what they are doing? You'd be amazed. https://twitter.com/_nothingtohide

Seems to me that people aren't too concerned of nameless, faceless people looking through their stuff so long as people they know (parents, spouse, friends..) don't see it.

It would be good if people realized how snooping is connected to poverty. In my scenario, snooping is used to gain business secrets. These are used to undercut businesses, resulting in lower wages and poverty.

E.g. Chinese hackers steal plans for American-designed products. Instead of Americans working, building and selling the things we consume, inexpensive imported versions are available b/c those companies didn't pay for the overhead of design and didn't take any risk. We need to protect ourselves from this.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#482

Post by aryastark »

ceautery wrote: post #7

I wonder how they store all that. Surely a side benefit of this could be NSA contributions to CS journals about database techniques. Also I doubt the veracity of the claim that they collect "nearly everything". Wouldn't they show up on, say, Sandvine's Internet traffic reports? I think it's more likely this claim is made simply to generate FUD in the general population.

> I wonder how they store all that.

Well, now they have a massive data center in Utah. That's most likely where it's all going today. Standard open source tools are all you really need.

> Wouldn't they show up on, say, Sandvine's Internet traffic reports?

No. If some script kiddie/hacker type installs a packet sniffer and logs all your traffic to your ISP, that won't show up anywhere. Traffic goes somewhere. You're sending packets out. Merely logging packets is entirely passive and undetectable.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#483

Post by jervisfm »

znowi wrote: post #51
nikcub wrote: post #29

This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. I can see how they get HTTP information, since they would intercept at transit hubs - but how are they getting all Facebook private messages and Gmail? I was also looking for another unique ID that users ar…

> how are they getting all Facebook private messages and Gmail? Perhaps you missed the news about PRISM? :)

With regards to the data collection, the thing to realize (which I did so myself) is that email truly is the glue that ties together most internet services.

Take facebook for example. By default, almost any and all activity on the site is catalogued for you by email -- for your convenience. Someone mentioned you in an update, you get a notification. A friend sent you a private FB message, you can an email notification with the content in line (even with the support of replying to message via email as well).

Now, because email traffic on the internet is not encrypted by default, one is able to piece together the contents of communications just by looking at the email.

Essentially anything that you receive via email (e.g. password reset links; credit card statement summaries etc) is subject to capture and analysis. Given this, it may make sense to perhaps disable (potentially sensitive) email notifications as a workaround around this particular collection method.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#484

Post by tedks »

Karunamon wrote: post #378
lazyjones wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you are done attacking Stallman with a false analogy, would you care to name a few of his invalid conclusions? More specifically, what is so impractical or "completely wrong" about not using smartphones?

Stallman's stance is against all cell phones, not just smartphones. And I'd argue that in 2013, to the point where we're issuing basic phones to welfare recipients for the purpose of job searching, that this is an invalid conclusion. As is only using the FSF's definition of free software (where it matters less that the software itself is free, but that the software doesn't point out to you any nonfree addons. Fedora…

>As is only using the FSF's definition of free software (where it matters less that the software itself is free, but that the software doesn't point out to you any nonfree addons.

You're conflating the FSF's definition of free software, and the FSF's criteria for recommending software to users.

The FSF sees Firefox as free software (now that the proprietary error-reporting system they used is removed); they won't recommend Firefox, because it recommends non-free software. Fedora is a distribution, not a specific program, and they won't recommend it because it recommends non-free software.

By the FSF definition, a license is free if it protects the Four Freedoms; but software licensed under that could be something the FSF doesn't wish to endorse.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#485

Post by samstave »

deveac wrote: post #453
s_q_b wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us. Again, I'll chime in as the resident apologist. The people working at Fort Meade are not evil. They truly believe they're doing a great service to the nation. They may be wrong, and they've certainly thrown privacy out…

While I feel that the programs the NSA employs are profound existential threats to our liberty and rights, I do agree with you on the balance that the human parts that make up the whole of these organizations fundamentally see themselves as benign and beneficial on the balance. I think it bears mentioning, and its worthwhile to keep this in mind while we do the necessary work of attempting to dismantle and remove a l…

The issue is that we need to demonize the people who are in fact evil and deliberately built this out and got it going. That list is surprisingly short:

GHW Bush

GW Bush

D Cheney

D Rumsfeld

C Rice

G Clapper

G Alexander

P Wolfowitz

These are the guys that created the orders that the soldiers are following, and the war they are dying in for these criminal's profits.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#487

Post by BecauseWeCan »

api wrote: post #376

I'm getting seriously irritated at the "I have nothing to hide" crowd. For starters, here are a few ways this can go horribly wrong: * Industrial espionage -- it's big business, and I'm sure it pays better than being an NSA analyst. * Foreign espionage -- since this gives unlimited querying power to every agent, a single "turned" agent could inflict massive damage on U.S. government and industry interests on behalf o…

Api, please make a post expanding on these ideas. Then post it here and send some copies to international news sites, like the guardian.

We need to wake up, your post would help a lot.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#488

Post by deveac »

aasarava wrote: post #313
deveac wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. It has become a bit of a pet peeve of mine recently to see self-aggrandizing comments from users around the net about how "we should have known" and "none of this is new." I'm a practically addicted news j…

I share your pet peeve and I can only assume that the "meh, no big surprise here" response stems from two things: wanting to sound just as knowledgeable as the person who brings up the topic (despite not having any new information); and at the same time justifying their complacency about the issue.

>and at the same time justifying their complacency about the issue.

A good theory, as I have an extremely difficult time imagining anyone in an activist (non-complacent) stance on this issue ever reacting like that to these revelations.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#489

Post by arh68 »

afterburner wrote: post #450
s_q_b wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us. Again, I'll chime in as the resident apologist. The people working at Fort Meade are not evil. They truly believe they're doing a great service to the nation. They may be wrong, and they've certainly thrown privacy out…

I'm not American, so I'm wondering: was the public really actually behind the PATRIOT Act, or were they merely giving leeway in a time where everyone was supposed to go along? Or were you thinking that's the same thing? Same with the politicians; were they really for it, or simply incredibly afraid of the political suicide that would be the results of standing up against it? Because this was a time when people did no…

How can anyone really be behind something they barely know anything about? When a bill like that comes around, the general reactions usually run from If You Say So to They'd Better Not Screw This Up. Some are completely deferential, some are completely skeptical. Nobody knew the details of what the law entailed for certain, so argument over it is like kickboxing on a waterbed: pointless, but vaguely resembling real fighting/debate. EDIT: to be clear, the general assumption is that Congressman know enough about the law to understand it (some things can be withheld from the public).

> incredibly afraid of the political suicide

Afraid is not the right word. Aware. When all (public) evidence concerning a law says "fight the terror!" and buildings are still blowing up, you'd have to represent a very interesting district to be "soft on terror".

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#490

Post by jnbiche »

junto wrote: post #468

The map on page 6 is interesting. Server locations of note: Moscow, Russia Caracas, Venezuela Tripoli, Libya Hubei Province, China Burma Lagos, Nigeria Saudi Arabia Iran (and geograhically surrounding Iran) Ukraine Based on page 13, I wonder if Google have any servers at these locations? Oh, what a surprise: http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/04/11/map-of-all-google-data-c... Does that look familiar?

I'm very suspicious of Google's role in all this, but there's not much overlap in the list above and the map you refer to, outside of the normal population and business centers in Europe and the US. I didn't see any in Google data centers in Libya, Burma, Nigeria, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Iran, or even Venezuela (the only one in S. American looks like it's in Brazil). Based on a quick glance, the only overlap between the list above and Google's server looks like Moscow, a major global business center.

Were we looking at the same map?

Post reply on HN