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XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

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Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#281

Post by Happer »

deveac wrote: post #249
nikcub wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There were a lot of people from the government that came out in the past few months and said there are checks and balances and a lot of oversight in these processes. That clearly isn't true. It will be interesting to go back through all of those statements with this new information/evidence on hand. Greenwald has timed this well. He put out enough information early on to give Snowden opponents enough rope wi…

>Greenwald has timed this well. He put out enough information early on to give Snowden opponents enough rope with which to hang themselves. I have to wonder if the staggered deployment of the leak has anything to do with savvy, or more with his own need to digest what he's got as he works through it and reports as he goes. Either way, the story has more legs than past revelations, so I'm happy for that, and I certain…

Response from Greenwald in the comments:

Q: Thanks for reporting this. I have to ask though, why is it that you are doling out this information now after the recent congressional inquiry into NSA spying and not earlier?

A: We've published almost two dozen exclusive articles about NSA spying in the last 7 weeks, in multiple different countries around the world. Is that pace not fast enough?

There are thousands upon thousands of documents and they take time to read, process, vet, and report. These are very complex matters. On top of everything else that has to be done with these articles, from explaining, debating and defending them in the media to dealing with the aftermath.

People can accuse us of many things. Not publishing enough or fast enough is hardly one of them.

That House vote was about one specific topic - bulk collection of phone records - that this newest article has nothing to do with. That House vote isn't the be all and end all: it's just one small battle in what I can assure you will be a sustained and ongoing discussion/controversy.

There is a lot more to report still. Accuracy is the number one priority. That takes time.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#282

Post by kazagistar »

netrus wrote: post #133
RyanZAG wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of puts into perspective why they would coordinate such a massive raid on Megaupload. The target may not have even been the data - merely seizing the data puts anybody who has accessed the megaupload website as an easy target.

You crossed the tinfoil line. Copyright infringement was sufficient motivation for the actions taken. The megaupload raid was not okay, but I am pretty sure Hollywood was behind it, not the NSA.

Well, there are reasons to put on our tinfoil hats now... heck, last I heard, MIT students had managed to inject memories into mice.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#284

Post by BgSpnnrs »

qwertzlcoatl wrote: post #89

Livestream to senate hearings covering all this can be found here: http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=0d93... As of this moment it's all about FISA. Wonder if this new allegation will be talked about.

The senate hearings are with regard to phone metadata. This is a totally different show.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#285

Post by pessimizer »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #280
bmelton wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both right. If you read the PATRIOT Act, it's easy to look backwards and see that the things we're becoming aware of now are logical extensions of what was being asked for way back then. It is, however, VERY easy not to have been able to have that foresight, and I think that the insights people were expecting the government to have been constrained by the fact that all the information of value is collected by…

If Richard Stallman is quietly berating us somewhere, he can go fuck himself. Part of educating the masses is being a person who people want to listen to. If he failed at that, he's no better than anyone else, and perhaps far worse, because of all the lost potential.

Part of being intelligent and shrewd is listening to the words that people say, and judging arguments based on their merit. The idea that Stallman should go fuck himself for not dumbing down or tarting up the message enough for you to pay attention to him makes you the asshole, not him.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#286

Post by arca_vorago »

w_t_payne wrote: post #240
arca_vorago wrote: post #66

Lurkers first post here. I always said saying "I told you so." when stuff like this started getting revealed would feel like a hollow phrase. Some of us have spent quite a bit of time talking about these issues, and were mostly rejected as crackpot "conspiracy theorists". While there are plenty of those around, maybe I could use this slight moment of pseudo-clarity to propose something. I could tell you where this is…

OK, I will take the bait. What do you think the greater machine is? Here is my take: You do not need to posit an organized Illuminati-like conspiracy to have cause for concern. We can find plenty to worry about even if we limit ourselves to properties of the system that are either emergent or driven by natural human behavioural traits. For example, a lot of people in positions of authority got there because they have…

I hope I am not responding to too many people and seeming spammy, but here goes.

I agree completely that we do not necessarily need to posit and organized "Illuminati-like conspiracy" to have cause for concern. There are plenty of studies showing increasing likely-hood of sociopaths rising to the top of power structures, and is often just due to how to system as an autonomous entity functions.

What I do posit though, is that, in fact, there is, borrowing your own term for lack of a better one, an "illuminati-like conspiracy". I have been considering an attempt at scholarly paper on the matter for some time now, but let me try to be terse and possibly just point you in the right direction, because I don't think I'm quite prepared to defend the full assertion in public yet.

I will start with your question about power feedback loops. Here is a paper regarding the global network of corporate control that anyone interested in the global power structure should read. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1107.5728v2.pdf

I even contacted one of the researchers (Glattfelder) during the Libor scandal, wondering if we could use some of the new information to analyze the scandal better. He said it would be extremely difficult due to how good the companies are at obfuscating their dealings.

Now, as far as the conspiracy, I would like to point out one thing. I do not claim that there is but a single conspiracy (a trap assertion many fall into making), and instead would say there there are but a small number of very powerful ones operating at any one time, sometimes in competition and sometimes cooperatively. Regarding the "illuminati-like conspiracy" itself, I have one primary reading source for you, if you are genuinely interested in the subject. It should be enough to get you started on the more serious analysis of what I am talking about. http://www.amazon.com/Anglo-American-Establishment-Quigley-C...

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#287

Post by nsns »

GI wrote: post #120

I am going to be obliterated for this comment! Does the fact they've caught 300 terrorists in anyway justify what they're doing? I am not saying it does, I just wondered what people's thoughts were (although I can guess!). It's interesting that it was included in the article in an attempt to give it some 'balance'..

Pointing to any benefits of this program is the equivalent of an ad hominem attack. Undoubtedly there are many efficient yet illegal ways to counter terrorism. No one claims this program can not be beneficial, but that the cost is too high (abandoning the rule of law, obliterating personal privacy). It's like committing suicide to foil a murder attack.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#288

Post by kazagistar »

junto wrote: post #160
junto wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably picked at random. The screenshot 'test case' could have been you. We are all in the database after all.

Of course, it would have been more amusing had the 'selector' been chosen as 'Barack Hussein Obama II'.

Forget amusing, that would have been a perfect action trigger: people are OK with privacy infringement on others, but when it happens to them, they are more likely to be upset.

I suspect, or maybe just hope, that politicians are protected in some way from this. While it is unfair, at least it would mean less opportunities to extort or threaten lawmakers. Though, obviously, it would be best if we ALL were safe from that kind of crud.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#289

Post by neilk »

DigitalJack wrote: post #246
nwh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't for a second bet on it. A hidden service has exactly the same issue as traffic that exits the network. The topography looks like this. httpd > tor node > tor node > tor node > rendezvous point With enough monitoring, the location of the web server (or other hidden service) can just be found out by bombing the hidden service with traffic and seeing what end point lights up with traffic. With fine enough mon…

I would think Silk Road provides enough incentive that if the government could defeat tor hidden services, they would have busted Silk Road.

Absolutely not. The government is not one unitary piece. The NSA is not the ATF is not the FBI. These capabilities were likely kept secret from other governmental agencies as much as the public.

Furthermore intelligence agencies are well aware that every action communicates information back to their adversaries. It's a no-brainer to let Silk Road exist if you think doing so gives you the edge on terrorism, or otherwise furthers the national interest.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#290

Post by ferdo »

arca_vorago wrote: post #66

Lurkers first post here. I always said saying "I told you so." when stuff like this started getting revealed would feel like a hollow phrase. Some of us have spent quite a bit of time talking about these issues, and were mostly rejected as crackpot "conspiracy theorists". While there are plenty of those around, maybe I could use this slight moment of pseudo-clarity to propose something. I could tell you where this is…

> The NSA is but a cog in a greater machine

Indeed. I always follow The Money because that's who owns the government.

America, including the NSA, is owned by the same small cartel that have the monopoly on the issuing of our currency and credit. Coincidentally, they're the same cartel we're "indebted" to.

Most people have never heard of the four largest banks in the world:

http://www.northerntrust.com/documents/white-papers/asset-ma...

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