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XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

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Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#241

Post by sbi »

skore wrote: post #144
GI wrote: post #120

I am going to be obliterated for this comment! Does the fact they've caught 300 terrorists in anyway justify what they're doing? I am not saying it does, I just wondered what people's thoughts were (although I can guess!). It's interesting that it was included in the article in an attempt to give it some 'balance'..

Sir Thomas More decides that he would rather die than lie or betray his faith. And one moment he is arguing with the particularly vicious which hunting prosecutor. A servant of the king and a hungry and ambitious man. And More says: “You’d break the law to punish the devil, wouldn’t you?” The prosecutor says: “break it? I’d cut down every law in England if that would take it to catch him”. “Yes you would, wouldn’t yo…

These are quotes from the Bolt drama "A Man for All Seasons," not Sir Thomas More himself.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#242

Post by w_t_payne »

fein wrote: post #179
w_t_payne wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@netrus - I am not even sure where the tinfoil line is anymore.

At this point, the line itself is even made of tinfoil.

Aaagh! Everything is tinfoil! Where did this tinfoil even come from! Get this tinfoil away from me! Aaaagh! Heeeeeeeelp!

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#243

Post by nathan_long »

jstalin wrote: post #204
jonknee wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, use HTTPS for everything. It's not a surprise that all the logos in this PowerPoint have since moved large portions of their traffic to SSL. SSL isn't perfect (you can still see what domain someone is requesting), but it does prevent a lot of the snooping outlined in the presentation (without vendor participation, it's always possible that Facebook is siphoning off their messages).

Why would we assume that TLS is safe? The NSA could just as easily compromise the CAs and get all the certificates they need.

Not exactly. Compromising a CA would let them fool a browser into thinking that a fake Google certificate is a real one. However, if Google were diligent, they could publish their valid cert signatures anywhere they like, and users could check the signatures of the certs that are presented as genuine.

The TSA can't crack or impersonate a cert at will; they can only 1) try to trick you into accepting a phony one or 2) demand/steal the private key from the site.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#244

Post by rohit89 »

skore wrote: post #222
akmiller wrote: post #141

Honest, maybe naive question, but what types of programmers actively help build and maintain systems like this? I turned down a job for a company that is less than a mile from my house because I viewed their business as immoral. Hard for me to fathom anyone taking a job, helping to build systems like this. I get that many of the components of a system like this could be seen as harmless. However, a system of this com…

> How can they feel good about what they are doing? You'd be amazed. https://twitter.com/_nothingtohide

Seems to me that people aren't too concerned of nameless, faceless people looking through their stuff so long as people they know (parents, spouse, friends..) don't see it.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#245

Post by northwest »

hannibal5 wrote: post #23

Just like suspected. If you use encryption like PGP, you become person of interest.

Re "Person of Interest":[0]

If yesterday we were "conspiracy theorists" when we suspected things like XKeyscore, what are we today if we suspect things like "Person of Interest"-like programs?

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839578/

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#246

Post by DigitalJack »

nwh wrote: post #49
peterwwillis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hidden services are still secure, presumably, because there is no exposed section of the network to inspect. All they can do is monitor and do statistical analysis, and maybe mess with the traffic to try to get more ideas of flow.

I wouldn't for a second bet on it. A hidden service has exactly the same issue as traffic that exits the network. The topography looks like this. httpd > tor node > tor node > tor node > rendezvous point With enough monitoring, the location of the web server (or other hidden service) can just be found out by bombing the hidden service with traffic and seeing what end point lights up with traffic. With fine enough mon…

I would think Silk Road provides enough incentive that if the government could defeat tor hidden services, they would have busted Silk Road.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#247

Post by duaneb »

jgrahamc wrote: post #61
znowi wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how are they getting all Facebook private messages and Gmail? Perhaps you missed the news about PRISM? :)

This presentation is from 2008. According to the presentation on PRISM Facebook joined the program on 3 June 2009. That would indicate that the searches here are based, most likely, not on participation by Facebook but by passive sniffing of HTTP traffic and then session reconstruction.

> That would indicate that the searches here are based, most likely, not on participation by Facebook

Gag warrants existed before PRISM.

EDIT: "National Security Letters"

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#248

Post by MarkHarmon »

arca_vorago wrote: post #66

Lurkers first post here. I always said saying "I told you so." when stuff like this started getting revealed would feel like a hollow phrase. Some of us have spent quite a bit of time talking about these issues, and were mostly rejected as crackpot "conspiracy theorists". While there are plenty of those around, maybe I could use this slight moment of pseudo-clarity to propose something. I could tell you where this is…

One reason I love HN is due to the contributors having better than average critical thinking skills (IMO). Unfortunately that isn't enough when it comes to asking someone to believe that all governments might be controlled by a secret organization, or something equally as sinister and unbelievable.

Since we know that our (USA) entire financial system is backed by (Federal Reserve) bankers that loan money without moral guidelines, it could be conceived that a family like the Rothschild are at the top of the world power hierarchy. What do they always say in the detective movies, "follow the money".

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#249

Post by deveac »

nikcub wrote: post #102
archgoon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing that this new release reveals is not the scope of the data collection, but confirmation that analysts are given free reign to perform queries. Until this, there was an outside chance that the system required all database queries to be signed by a Judge prior to execution. This is not the case though; all queries are processed immediately, with essentially nothing more than a repo commit message as just…

Exactly. There were a lot of people from the government that came out in the past few months and said there are checks and balances and a lot of oversight in these processes. That clearly isn't true. It will be interesting to go back through all of those statements with this new information/evidence on hand. Greenwald has timed this well. He put out enough information early on to give Snowden opponents enough rope wi…

>Greenwald has timed this well. He put out enough information early on to give Snowden opponents enough rope with which to hang themselves.

I have to wonder if the staggered deployment of the leak has anything to do with savvy, or more with his own need to digest what he's got as he works through it and reports as he goes.

Either way, the story has more legs than past revelations, so I'm happy for that, and I certainly would love for it to be the case that there is a degree of effective calculation behind the deployment of the info with the goal of keeping the conversation alive and neutering critics. Goodness knows that this story needs all the help it can get. It's up against not only the resources of some of the most powerful governments on the planet, but also the lacking attention spans of their populations combined with relatively disinterested media.

I'm heartened that the noise level has remained so high since the first Guardian article (in this latest series).

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#250

Post by pknight »

Karunamon wrote: post #234
blueprint wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can be completely correct and still be a crackpot. This is very important. What do you mean by "crackpot"?

It's not feasible for the average person to restrict their lives to the point that RMS does and advocates for. * Reading the web via email only * Using completely free software and hardware (which as far as I can tell, limits you to a very small subset of Linux on a single Chinese-made netbook) * Not carrying a cellphone * Not using any social networks. Stallman's principled stand is admirable, but untenable for most…

> Over unity energy generation from the vacuum is rightly labeled as 'crackpot' imo

Then it seems that crackpottery is a term that may be removed in retrospect. I'm sure at some point in the future someone will crack the energy from the vacuum riddle, who knows.

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