11–20 of 100 posts
Dozens of slides of memes, curses and buzzwords. The state of communicating on the internet in 2013. Can someone more patient than I am tell me if there's some actual content in there?
tl;dr: The talk might have been different, but there is nothing of substance in the slides.
Dozens of slides of memes, curses and buzzwords. The state of communicating on the internet in 2013. Can someone more patient than I am tell me if there's some actual content in there?
tl;dr: The talk might have been different, but there is nothing of substance in the slides.
tl;dr - the author wants someone to re-write Perl 5 and CPAN to add some features he likes and remove some features he doesn't like.
The talk was held by Stevan Little, the creator of Moose, the person who experimented in Moe on a modern Perl 5, and the person who is currently working on a Meta-Object-Protocol that can be put in the Perl core to make good OO available out of the box, on which Moose, Moo and friends can built. He dearly loves Perl and has done a lot for it.
This talk is not a blind troll, but a warning, an overview of his past efforts and ends on a positive note.
Please do not comment before actually reading the entire thing.
I was sold on the promises of this thing they were calling Perl 6, that was supposed to break backwards compatibility and "fix all the things" in one shot. I followed it for a couple of years and then something happened...
Somebody pointed me to tryruby.org - I discovered a language that was more expressive than perl, followed similar values (i.e. There's more than one way to do it) and opened me up to a new world of meta programming. I embraced & absorbed it and today it's my weapon of choice for most of what I would have reached out to Perl for.
In perl5 : - I can have a prototype running in a matter of minutes - I have access to a vast library of modules doing everything I need (which helps the former) - I write quick and efficient code Do I really care about what other people think about the languages and tools I use? No. However, I do care about efficiency and results And, uh, working with a language that has been out for tens of years makes me believe my…
I challenge your efficiency claims. The benchmarks just do not support. I mean, roughly in parity with Python and PHP, 20x slower than Clojure on average, 30x slower than Haskell, and on many tasks 100x slower than C. Over the whole bredth of the Alioth shootout programs, Perl trades places with JRuby as the slowest tested language.
I can't wait for Perl 6.
In perl5 : - I can have a prototype running in a matter of minutes - I have access to a vast library of modules doing everything I need (which helps the former) - I write quick and efficient code Do I really care about what other people think about the languages and tools I use? No. However, I do care about efficiency and results And, uh, working with a language that has been out for tens of years makes me believe my…
I challenge your efficiency claims. The benchmarks just do not support. I mean, roughly in parity with Python and PHP, 20x slower than Clojure on average, 30x slower than Haskell, and on many tasks 100x slower than C. Over the whole bredth of the Alioth shootout programs, Perl trades places with JRuby as the slowest tested language.
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Edit: What I do see is all the fastest test program for the interpreted languages, ruby, python, etc are all trading places for the slowest language - the differences seem to be completely minimal. (As there seem to be more perl test programs per benchmark the slowest of them is often near the bottom - perhaps that was your methodology.)
For me, the biggest pros for Perl were it's extreme expressiveness and the power of CPAN. However, it wasn't without it's warts - odd threading, weird sub signatures, faked OO, etc .. I've spent a lot of time explaining the nuances of these warts to others, which only made me realize how serious these issues are. I was sold on the promises of this thing they were calling Perl 6, that was supposed to break backwards c…
> weird sub signatures
No core signatures, but modules on CPAN that make signatures available.
> faked OO
The OO in Perl works almost identically to the one in Python, and i assume Ruby is similar too. The difference is that OO syntax sugar is implemented in core in Python and Ruby, while in Perl it is implemented in Perl directly and available on CPAN but in core.
There's nothing fake about it.
As for your conclusion: I have the strong suspicion that the difference lies less in the language itself [1], but more in the fact that with tryruby you had a modern learning resource available that taught a good coding style; while pretty much all Perl learning written before February 2012 are mainly based on material originating in the early 90ies. [2]
[1] The main Ruby implementation doesn't even have multi-core-capable threads, but uses something that's basically a VM-level event system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_threads
Dozens of slides of memes, curses and buzzwords. The state of communicating on the internet in 2013. Can someone more patient than I am tell me if there's some actual content in there?