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A year without food (2012)

abc.net.au

81–90 of 101 posts

Re: A year without food (2012)

#81

Something I didn't know: "A very small part of your energy comes from breaking down your muscles — but you can avoid this by doing some resistance training, otherwise known as pumping iron. The majority of your energy comes from breaking down fat." I thought fasting would always cause your muscles to weaken. But this makes more sense for evolution. If your muscles are being used, the body takes energy from all other…

You will definitively feel weaker and be unable to work out as hard. Even a days worth of poorly timed meals and/or too little protein can mess my weight lifting up for the following day, and fasting quickly forces my lifting volume down substantially (though amino acids from your protein intake can stay in your blood stream for a few days, so if you've kept protein intake high, you can keep things normal through a couple of days of fasting).

But the main predictor of how quickly you'll recover your strength afterwards will be whether or not you keep up resistance exercise. After a weak of lazing about during vacation, it can take me 2-3 weeks of hard exercise to be back at my peak. After eating too little or fasting for a short while, it's mostly just a matter of getting well fed enough again. I don't have experience with longer fasts, so I can't say how much they'd affect me, but it does take time to trigger substantial muscle breakdown, and even if you do lose muscle, getting back up to the same strength is much quicker.

Re: A year without food (2012)

#83
post #32

When I've tried to fast into the night, I wake up in the middle of the night and have to eat something otherwise I can't sleep. Does this happen to anyone else?

This is why I eat only at night. I sleep better with some food in me and cant sleep while hungry. Try fasting during the day if the night time fast doesnt work for you.

Thanks. I do sometimes. But I wonder how people manage to do multi-day fasts.

Re: A year without food (2012)

#84
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardest part was social?! Really?! I've done a couple five day fasts and the hardest part is that after day three you have an effective IQ of 65. Your body shuts your brain down and you can't think clearly. I wonder if this has an under-explored psycho-therapeutic value, actually. When you can't mentally ruminate at all anxieties definitely dissipate. I'd recommend fasting as a way to clear one's head for sure. Y…

I wasn't claiming it was the same for everyone ... and as I mentioned, I actually felt sharper.

> I actually felt sharper

I do IF (Intermittent Fasting, 24 to 36 hours with water only once a week), and have found that too, but I have also found that as soon as I start eating again, I get quickly tired and warm (like I started a fire inside my body).

Re: A year without food (2012)

#85

I've been eating once a day since May last year, I eat only at dinner time and eat what I want and quite a lot. I don't get hungry until about 4pm, but then I go and do exercise. It's helped a lot with alertness, thinking is much clearer during the day, and I've always done a lot of sport and been quite slim, but I've really cut up since doing this (I'm 40 now, no fat around my middle). It's had no negative effect on…

Everybody is different, "you are an experiment of one"...

A lot of material about fasting says that if you skip meals, you "cannot" eat back the calories you missed. This might be true in some individuals, but not for me. I have always been able to eat large quantities in one sitting ; I have been kicked out of all-you-can-eat buffets in my early 20s.

When I tried to eat once every 24 hours, I ended up eating huge meals and put on weight.

Re: A year without food (2012)

#86

"Potassium is essential for the proper working of the heart, and when his potassium levels got a little low around the 100-day mark, he was given potassium tablets for about 70 days. " This is why fasting is out of the question unless you have constant medical supervision. You need a prescription to get potassium supplements that actually meet the daily requirement.

"You need a prescription to get potassium supplements that actually meet the daily requirement."

Where do you live?

Google or Amazon for sodium free table salt. Find a potassium chloride based one. Don't pay more than a buck or two per ounce. Don't take more than a half/quarter teaspoon and drink lots of water. If you can taste it, you didn't add it to enough water. It tastes awful in high concentration. Chlorides are like that.

I get leg cramps if I work my legs too hard in hot sweaty weather and don't get enough potassium. A banana or two prevents that and is a great paleo-type breakfast. Sometimes it would be inconvenient so I eat a little sodium free salt. The "official" RDA for potassium is around a half to quarter teaspoon so eat that much sodium free pure KCl table salt. Use your brain a bit... you wouldn't dump a quarter cup of that stuff on a fried egg, so don't consume a quarter cup of that stuff. But millions of people daily dump a fraction of a teaspoon of it on their meals, so a fraction of a teaspoon a day probably is similarly likely to be OK.

The stuff in K pills is laughably small almost homeopathic dosage level. Like 99 mg in a pill. What you eat 20 of those per day? Just use the sodium free salt.

"constant medical supervision."

This is true, not just K level issues. Many people walking around with some level of blood sugar "issue" and suddenly stopping intake is asking for trouble. Of course, suddenly doing much of anything is usually a bad idea.

This is one of those things like drunk driving where the odds of anything bad happening are extremely low, but when something actually happens, its really super awful and best avoided.

This whole fasting topic is a poster child for moderation. Consuming precisely half your normal intake would result in the same exact benefits, at half speed, but probably only a hundredth the medical issues. So the average goofball goes all in, of course, like health is best modeled as an extreme sport.. Dumb idea.

Re: A year without food (2012)

#87

All of this feels like a bit of stunt-ism to me. Encouraging behavior in humans that is fundamentally bad for us.

Depends on which archeologist or anthropologist you talk to.

What and how we eat since McDonalds was invented a couple generations ago does not have much relationship to what and how we ate for millions/hundreds of thousands of years.

There are some hints in how we're unable to store vitamin C, so obviously we evolved to rely on a relatively stable source of citrus. On the other hand the gallbladder seems optimized to digest large amounts of fatty meat every couple days at most, rather than none ever or small amounts every meal. Our long term iodine storage is somewhat lacking indicating a bit of coastal living / seafood would be a good idea. Given that ethanol is a systemic poison, our livers seem well evolved to get rid of it compared to other systemic poisons, indicating a modest consumption is probably reasonable, although not drinking is probably wiser. Our unimpressive long term iron storage, at least for women, indicates a reasonable source of iron (meat?) be hunted down and consumed at absolute minimum every month or so.

Now you can use modern high tech living to hack what your body was evolved to do, for moral or ethical or profitable reasons. We've got a ridiculously complicated world wide food production infrastructure, and a pharma infrastructure, and lots of scientific knowledge, so why not hack the system and go vegetarian even if its un-natural. Or occasional weird processed stuff. But the modern ability to hack it, doesn't mean the body doesn't have an inherent set of design constraints WRT nutrition. And occasional fasting does seem biologically part of the design. Otherwise we'd simply keel over and die once the initial blood sugar dropped too low, because it would be evolutionarily simpler to insta-pee out as ketones any fat or excess carbs consumed at the time of consumption... Aside from the obvious evolutionary positives of being lighter and faster. So we're built to pig out for a month and starve for a month.

Re: A year without food (2012)

#88
post #41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be amazed at how much your metabolism can slow down when you fast. When in college I saw a presentation at the medical school where they showed the effect of low calorie diets. It's not unusual for people on low calorie diets to see a 30-40% drop in their basal metabolic rates. And those are diet where the person is getting some food. I agree that 980 kcal/day is pretty low, especially for someone of his size,…

It will apparently also go the other direction, speeding up to consume excess calories in order to maintain your "normal" weight - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQshbJATVQ - skip to about 49 minutes. One of the guys in this experiment, where they doubled their caloric intake for about 6 weeks, had his metabolic rate go up 30% to compensate.

> Once you make fat cells, they never ever go away.

Well, that's pretty depressing. Maybe the next big thing in combating obesity would be finding some mechanism to get rid of extra fat cells?

Re: A year without food (2012)

#89
post #64
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I thought the feeling I get, when I didn't eat for >10h was hunger. It's an ugly feeling, which comes with borborygmus. Appetite is a feeling I would describe more psychological. I'm smelling something delicious and suddenly want to eat it.

10h? That's not hunger, that's regular appetite. Not having eaten for 2-3 days would be hunger.

Actually he described it quite well. Appetite is psychological, whereas hunger is a physical sensation of pain.

I'm replying to your post because I get hungry even quicker. I had lunch (rump steak, potatoes) at 1pm and now at 4:30, I'm hungry again. My BMI Is 21, with rather low body fat.

Re: A year without food (2012)

#90
post #58
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first one is appetite. The real hunger comes around after a few weeks of fasting - and unlike appetite, it doesn't go away when you do something interesting.

Really? I thought the feeling I get, when I didn't eat for >10h was hunger. It's an ugly feeling, which comes with borborygmus. Appetite is a feeling I would describe more psychological. I'm smelling something delicious and suddenly want to eat it.

Is it a crinkly feeling in your gut? That could be your GI tract closing down since it has nothing to do.
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