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We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

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Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#41

Post by PhantomGremlin »

Bah. All this IPV4 "exhaustion" stuff can be simply solved. Almost overnight. Right now, most of the space is underused and simply being hoarded.

Want to free up 90% of the IPs? Easily? Then charge for them!!!

If MIT had to pay $1/mo for each IP address ($16 million per month), it would immediately give most of them back.

If MIT had to pay $1/year for each IP address ($16 million per year), it would immediately give most of them back.

And yet for people like me, paying (in round numbers) $50 / month for Internet, $1/year or even $1/month would be "in the noise".

So how many hundreds of billions of dollars will instead be spent on the designed-by-nerds very-difficult-to-implement not-very-backward-compatible solution of IPV6?

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#42

Post by wmf »

nwh wrote: post #38
ctrl_freak wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does Xerox need an entire A block, why do Apple, BMW? They don't, but retroactively taking away their /8s would be extremely complicated and expensive for them, not to mention that there is very little benefit from prolonging exhaustion by perhaps 1-2 years at most.

They could buy the ranges back if they really desired. The results from the Carna botnet show just how sparse the usage of the allocated ranges is. It's practically empty for the entire left upper quadrant. http://internetcensus2012.bitbucket.org/images/hilbert_icmp_...

A lot of IP addresses are used but not visible from the public Internet.

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#43

Post by icebraining »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #41

Bah. All this IPV4 "exhaustion" stuff can be simply solved. Almost overnight. Right now, most of the space is underused and simply being hoarded. Want to free up 90% of the IPs? Easily? Then charge for them!!! If MIT had to pay $1/mo for each IP address ($16 million per month), it would immediately give most of them back. If MIT had to pay $1/year for each IP address ($16 million per year), it would immediately give…

That would still only fix the problem for a relatively short time, and then you'd still need IPv6. It's a stopgap, not a long term solution.

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#44

Post by rgbrenner »

btilly wrote: post #14
unreal37 wrote: post #3

Unless I'm misreading it. The rationing rules in effect during Phase 3 are exactly the same as Phase 2. So why the distinction at all?

There is now a 60 day payment window that wasn't there before. And a review of previous procedures that could result in various minor revisions. So it is different, but not a lot different.

The 60 day payment window was added in phase 2

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#45

Post by teddyh »

Meanwhile, in Europe, RIPE ran out of IPv4 a year ago[1], and people have been happily implementing IPv6 ever since. In Sweden, there is a government directive[2] that all state infrastructure should implement IPv6 and DNSSEC by this year (2013) at the latest.

1) https://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/ipv4-exhaustion

2) http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/15234/a/177127

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#46

Post by sliverstorm »

xxpor wrote: post #13
recuter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of those can return their /8. That's 18 /8 potentially available. If say, Apple is using at least a little bit of that /8 here and there (safe assumption, no?) its going to be hard for them to return it. I'd wager corporations that have /8s have policies that rely on the assumption that they have the whole /8. So I wouldn't hold my breath on getting one back from them.

Right. How much code is out there that looks like if(recv.ip.contains("2.") { //well we know that they're from X co. }

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic. I'd bet a lot.

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#47

Post by teddyh »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #33
recuter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of those can return their /8. That's 18 /8 potentially available. If say, Apple is using at least a little bit of that /8 here and there (safe assumption, no?) its going to be hard for them to return it. I'd wager corporations that have /8s have policies that rely on the assumption that they have the whole /8. So I wouldn't hold my breath on getting one back from them.

There's no reason they would have to return the entire thing. Some /16s would be fine.

It would also be completely useless, as implementing the reassignment would dwarf the cost of moving to IPv6.

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#48

Post by sliverstorm »

ck2 wrote: post #26
mfincham wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recovering additional IPv4 space at this point only prolongs the inevitable problem. The solution is IPv6.

Yes but for now it's a case of money buys conspicuous consumption and the internet shouldn't work that way. ipv6 will be a lot easier to adopt in 2015 vs 2013 so every year we can claw back makes life easier

No, I don't think so. Kicking the can down the road doesn't help much, the longer you kick it the more people say "Whatever, they'll keep putting this off for at least a decade, let's just drop IPv6 from Linux 3.2 and put it back in Linux 4.0" and then where are you.

IPv6 isn't going to just magically happen if you don't make it happen.

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#49

Post by bifrost »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #12
ars wrote: post #4

There are a ton of /8 still assigned to companies that don't need them. Ford, GE, IBM, AT&T (x2), Xerox, HP (x2), Apple, MIT, CSC, Eli Lilly, Nortel, Prudential Insurance, DuPont, Cap Debis, Merck, SITA. All of those can return their /8. That's 18 /8 potentially available. And does the DoD really need 12 /8's? I get that they want to network every person, gun, ship, tank, truck and plane. But none of those need to be…

Can those companies sell their IPs on the open market when the normal pool has run out? Is that allowed?

Short answer : no

Re: We're about to hit phase 3 of ARIN IPV4 rationing

#50

Post by swixmix »

recuter wrote: post #9
ars wrote: post #4

There are a ton of /8 still assigned to companies that don't need them. Ford, GE, IBM, AT&T (x2), Xerox, HP (x2), Apple, MIT, CSC, Eli Lilly, Nortel, Prudential Insurance, DuPont, Cap Debis, Merck, SITA. All of those can return their /8. That's 18 /8 potentially available. And does the DoD really need 12 /8's? I get that they want to network every person, gun, ship, tank, truck and plane. But none of those need to be…

> All of those can return their /8. That's 18 /8 potentially available. If say, Apple is using at least a little bit of that /8 here and there (safe assumption, no?) its going to be hard for them to return it. I'd wager corporations that have /8s have policies that rely on the assumption that they have the whole /8. So I wouldn't hold my breath on getting one back from them.

This could be a fortunate investment that will make them lots of money. Give it back? I doubt it. Sell it back? Profit.
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