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MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

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Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#31

Post by larrys »

chaostheory wrote: post #10
mitmatt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The report appears to find that MIT should not have changed its neutral stance, which is disappointing, and I'm skeptical. The report does not have any findings about what MIT "should" have done, as it states many times, such as in the last paragraph of the Introduction section: > It was not part of our charge in this review to draw conclusions, but rather to determine facts and to consider what can be learned from…

> The report does not have any findings about what MIT "should" have done Well then what's the point of the report other than allowing MIT to wash its hands? Great timing on the release as well since it will likely be forgotten and hidden due to another big event today.

"Great timing on the release as well since it will likely be forgotten and hidden due to another big event today."

What is your suggestion on a better time to release? Or what do you think they should have done exactly?

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#32

Post by jmcgough »

sendos wrote: post #20

I did not follow this case when it broke, so do guys know what Aaron planned on doing with all that JSTOR material he was downloading? (~80% of JSTOR, according to one article I read)

His intent was to make it all freely available.

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#33

Post by larrys »

bguthrie wrote: post #5

Those of us who believe MIT deserves some blame for subsequent events do so because they could have asked the prosecution to desist, as JSTOR did, or at least downgrade the charges to a misdemeanor, but chose not to. That amounted to an implicit endorsement of the prosecution, which would have been difficult to pursue without the support of either MIT or JSTOR. The report appears to find that MIT should not have chan…

"Those of us who believe MIT deserves some blame for subsequent events"

To be clear do you mean that MIT deserves blame for the suicide?

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#34

Post by MichaelSalib »

jpmattia wrote: post #27
vabmit wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The MITs neutrality apparently extends so far that they > don't even bother with what kind of police forces are > strolling around on campus. Inter-agency task forces have become common in American law enforcement since 9/11. Many people have multiple affiliations. For example, I have a friend that is part of the New England Electronic Crimes Task Force. He's a Secret Service agent and does Secret Service details.…

> Inter-agency task forces have become common in American law enforcement since 9/11. Still, you call for a Cambridge detective, the Secret Service also shows up, and that doesn't cause major head scratching? I wish the summary had expanded on that part. FD: I'm an alum. Edit: From the report: For the same reasons, the MIT Police sought forensic assistance from a detective in the Cambridge Police Department who had e…

No, it doesn't cause head scratching. You called the police because you need computer forensics expertise while investigating a crime. The local cops show up with extra computer forensics experts who are also law enforcement. Not a big deal.

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#35

Post by MichaelSalib »

jmcgough wrote: post #32
sendos wrote: post #20

I did not follow this case when it broke, so do guys know what Aaron planned on doing with all that JSTOR material he was downloading? (~80% of JSTOR, according to one article I read)

His intent was to make it all freely available.

We really don't know that. There are reasons to suspect that he did, but as the report points out (section II.A.2), he never explicitly said what his intent was.

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#36

Post by larrys »

rdl wrote: post #21

My TLDR on this is that it all basically went haywire when MIT IS&T decided to call MIT Police for a machine downloading content on their network. They screwed up in many ways after that, but once someone unleashed a politically ambitious US Attorney on the case, it was kind of a lost cause. I don't believe universities should have police departments (or really that any private organizations should have police depart…

"University police essentially exist to cover up rapes on campus."

Oh come on what kind of statement is that to make?

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#37

Post by rdl »

danso wrote: post #30
rdl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-criminal complaints on campus could be handled by something other than police with guns. If someone is a tenant in a university-owned building, it's pretty reasonable to sign some kind of agreement to not violate rules egregiously; the ultimate sanction of eviction and expulsion should be enough for things short of serious crimes (which would be better addressed by "real" police). MIT police seem to have become a…

I can't speak for MIT's police, but at my campus, campus police were not armed with guns and had just started debating the use of Tasers...so, I agree with you. I'd also argue that having campus police is not mutually exclusive of fostering the creative mischief that you mention...in fact, I'd argue that having campus police is the best way to maintain that creative mischief. Again, a police close to its constituents…

Yeah -- we probably agree. I'd like early, lightweight intervention; I just don't think they should be from sworn law enforcement officers, who generally have a duty to report/intervene. The ideal would be to have peers as the first line of intervention, followed by RAs and other sort-of-peers, and then IMO people who are not law enforcement but are somehow trained.

Part of what happened at MIT was Susan Hockfield, who was by far the worst President MIT has ever had (2004-2012) -- pushing a lot of these developments (expansion of bureaucracy/deans, more "conventional" police responses to issues, ...). Vest (1990-2004) was better, and Reif (2012-now) seems pretty good, but I mostly stopped caring.

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#38

Post by chaostheory »

larrys wrote: post #31
chaostheory wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The report does not have any findings about what MIT "should" have done Well then what's the point of the report other than allowing MIT to wash its hands? Great timing on the release as well since it will likely be forgotten and hidden due to another big event today.

"Great timing on the release as well since it will likely be forgotten and hidden due to another big event today." What is your suggestion on a better time to release? Or what do you think they should have done exactly?

Simple. Delay it for a few days. I would imagine MIT's administration reads the news. Even if they publicly announced a deadline, which I don't think they did; it's not like they couldn't offer a good rationale for delaying the release of the findings. My opinion hasn't changed. Given the date of release and their objection to the FOIA requests, the only things MIT really wants is to have this event forgotten and to disavow any wrongdoing on their part.

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#39

Post by arkades »

larrys wrote: post #36
rdl wrote: post #21

My TLDR on this is that it all basically went haywire when MIT IS&T decided to call MIT Police for a machine downloading content on their network. They screwed up in many ways after that, but once someone unleashed a politically ambitious US Attorney on the case, it was kind of a lost cause. I don't believe universities should have police departments (or really that any private organizations should have police depart…

"University police essentially exist to cover up rapes on campus." Oh come on what kind of statement is that to make?

One that I find sadly more accurate than not.

Re: MIT releases report on its actions in the Aaron Swartz case

#40

Post by rdl »

larrys wrote: post #36
rdl wrote: post #21

My TLDR on this is that it all basically went haywire when MIT IS&T decided to call MIT Police for a machine downloading content on their network. They screwed up in many ways after that, but once someone unleashed a politically ambitious US Attorney on the case, it was kind of a lost cause. I don't believe universities should have police departments (or really that any private organizations should have police depart…

"University police essentially exist to cover up rapes on campus." Oh come on what kind of statement is that to make?

A factual one, which has been widely reported over the years.

Universities pay for their own police. The goal of the university is to avoid incidents which would deter parents from sending their children to the school. Rape, particularly date rape/incidents involving alcohol are quite common on campus, if only due to demographics (young, socially connected, etc.)

There are three ways to solve it -- either actually addressing the underlying issues, or full prosecution of every incident, or sweeping it under the rug to the extent possible.

#1 is obviously ideal, but difficult. #2 would end up with both scary stats and large numbers of other students with felony convictions. #3 is the standard university police outcome.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bennett-l-gershman/campus-cult... is one article.

Anyone who is a victim of a serious crime in a place with "internal" police should almost certainly report directly to the territorial police instead, or at least in addition to, since they have much fewer conflicts of interest, and probably more expertise in dealing with serious crimes.

("Real" police departments are also (theoretically) much more accountable to voters and the public, too. This is particularly an issue with weird transit or internal-to-agency police like the BART Police (who are tied with East Palo Alto PD as the worst department in the region).)

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