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Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

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Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#111

Post by theorique »

steveklabnik wrote: post #44
asdasf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Drunk consent isn't consent Legally it is. >people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people. People are always open to accusations. I can't find evidence of a single conviction for someone consenting to sex while intoxicated. Only when causing the intoxication in the first place, without consent, does further consent get negated.

http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/pub_prosecuting_alcohol_facilitated_... references Arizona: A.R.S. §§ 13-1401 and 13-1406; Illinois: 720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/12-13; Kansas: K.S.A. § 21-3502; Maine: 17-A M.R.S. § 109; Missouri: R.S.Mo. §§ 566.040 and 566.061; and Wisconsin: Wis. Stat. § 940.225. And claims these as case law for > • Either statute or case law specifically outlaws having intercourse > with a person who is too int…

Interestingly, while the statute uses the term too intoxicated to consent, it doesn't define it.

Is an unconscious person too intoxicated to consent to consent? Most people would say yes, and I imagine the law would concur.

Is a person drifting in and out of consciousness too intoxicated to consent? Most people would say yes.

Is a person who's able to walk, but obviously drunk, too intoxicated to consent? What if you ask them to come to your place to have sex and they agree with a drunken "uhhh yeah uuuhhhh cooool... uuuhhh ok". This is sounding more like real consent but a lot of people would proceed with caution to avoid a bad situation and/or regret.

Is a person who's had a couple of drinks and is exhibiting increased outgoingness and reduced inhibitions too intoxicated to consent? This is where a lot of dates and hookups end up. Most people would say this is OK, but a zealous prosecutor with an axe to grind might be able to make charges stick.

And finally, one presumes that if you're below the legal limit for operating a motor vehicle, you are also able to consent to sex.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#112

Post by NegativeK »

newbie12 wrote: post #50

I want a straw that tests for adulterated alcohol-- specifically for a bar serving filtered rubbing alcohol instead of the real stuff.

15g of isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol will kill you.

There's a chance, though, that you may be calling low quality ethanol alcohol rubbing alcohol, and I'm just missing it.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#114

Post by jamieb »

silverlake wrote: post #110
jamieb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's exactly it though, lots of people "experience" being roofied, and then are tested and it turns out they were not. Do you have a link for that?

Toxicological findings in cases of alleged drug-facilitated sexual assault in the United Kingdom over a 3-year period: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16054005 TL;DR: 1014 people claimed they were drugged and sexually assaulted. "In 21 cases (2%), a sedative or disinhibiting drug was detected..." So-called "date rape" drugs were a subset of these cases.

From your source: "Illicit drugs were detected in 344 cases (34%)"

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#115

Post by thwest »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #105
thwest wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the drunk driver's lack of consent isn't the problem with drunk driving: it's the lack of consent from everyone else on the road. The issue with consent while drunk isn't about what you do to yourself while drunk: it is about hurting other people. You have the right to get drunk to the point of passing out in front of the stereo with The Cure's worst album at full blast, the dishes undone, leftovers on the st…

Your answer implicitly casts the drunk person being acted upon, rather than an actor. I see this a lot and I have a feeling this stems from society's sexist views regarding sex that we've all internalized (men are always the actor, women passive). The point is assuming the drunk person (lets assume a women) is giving "enthusiastic consent", and thus is a "drunk actor" in this situation, why is responsibility invalida…

Someone capable of enthusiastic consent doesn't have their responsibility invalidated. Where did anyone say that? The important cases are where the consent is marginal -- either temporally separated from the act or given from a person who is borderline comatose. Assuming enthusiastic consent is just assuming away the problem.

Do you acknowledge that there is a level of drunk where you can still sort of walk and talk but all that is really happening is you on autopilot trying to find your bed or just anywhere to sleep? Imagine being in this state among many acquaintances both new and old (which are the typical assailants). Imagine trying to find the safety of a bed and upon half-hearing a friend's offer in a loud place, saying "yes I want to go to bed", and that being misinterpreted? Compare this to being drunk, and seeking out the danger of driving home.

(I deliberately chose The Cure because I only know men who listen to them. Yes, society's norms frame women as passive, but it also makes them actual victims of sexual assault at alarming rates.)

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#116

Post by Nursie »

jamieb wrote: post #114
silverlake wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toxicological findings in cases of alleged drug-facilitated sexual assault in the United Kingdom over a 3-year period: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16054005 TL;DR: 1014 people claimed they were drugged and sexually assaulted. "In 21 cases (2%), a sedative or disinhibiting drug was detected..." So-called "date rape" drugs were a subset of these cases.

From your source: "Illicit drugs were detected in 344 cases (34%)"

Illicit does not mean unwitting or unwillingly taken.

(Again, no judgement on those that choose to use drugs, I certainly do and I think that drug users are as deserving of protection as anyone else)

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#117

Post by Nursie »

jmduke wrote: post #49
Nursie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ It is, sorry. There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them. >> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. You…

I'm giving the commenter the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he means that "there's nothing wrong with getting someone hammered to try and sleep with them", he means that "society seems to have a much smaller problem with getting someone hammered to try and sleep with them despite it being the same basic idea as GHB."

Dunno. To me there's a vast differnce between getting pissed and falling into bed with someone as a mutual "WAHEY! let's go for it!" thing and "if I keep buying her drinks maybe she'll get drunk enough to take her top off". The latter seems little better than spiking them.

--edit-- OK so I've read his other comments and it was clearly a comment on society and meant to be taken at anything but face value. I'll be the first to admit that in discussions like these I can easily suffer from a sense of humour failure, if not a complete lack of sarcasm detection.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#118

Post by Nursie »

nicolethenerd wrote: post #51
Nursie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ It is, sorry. There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them. >> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. You…

Pretty sure keevie was being sarcastic.

My meter is off this week, and the whole troll/poe thing is still settling down in my brain.

If it was a comment on societal attitudes then cool, am on board.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#119

Post by Nursie »

gohrt wrote: post #53
Nursie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ It is, sorry. There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them. >> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. You…

> There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them. Is there an objective test, that can be administered by a third party, to differentiate between these two cases? If not, then what?

> Is there an objective test, that can be administered by a third party, to differentiate between these two cases? If not, then what?

Who cares? You know if you're being creepy or not.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#120

Post by Nursie »

keevie wrote: post #99
ZoF wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he saying that he uses it that way himself? No. He's saying that society doesn't view it as negatively as it should... You shouldn't need to lower someones inhibitions for them to sleep with you... The very fact that you say "it's creepy to lower someones inhibitions that way" only serves to reinforce his point... It's not just "creepy" it's downright fucked up; and for a portion of society it is common-case usage…

Not only is it downright fucked up, it's rape. Full stop.

OK so I am glad I read this. I wasn't sure how to take your first comment, as is a classic on the net - I read into it emotionally as praise for the actions you described. I'm glad to read that I had the wrong end of the stick.
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