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Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

arstechnica.com

101–110 of 112 posts

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#101
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wat. It already happens. I don't get free hosting for my sites.

I think you're confused about the issue. you pay for hosting, yes, of course. You don't additionally pay individual ISPs to guarantee it's users access to your sites.

I don't? I honestly don't know that. If my hosting company does, I'm sure they would pass that additional cost directly to me. I don't see a problem here.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#102
post #21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Providing internet service requires a lot of physical infrastructure, e.g. cables run to every home, all the attendant routing and switching gear, a fleet of trucks and maintenance workers available 24/7, etc. Right now the ISPs (phone and/or cable company) provides this. Are you saying that the physical infrastructure should be separated from the ISP function? Who owns the physical infrastructure then?

The public (ie, local or state government). Like the roads. Like the sewers. Like (some) power lines. Like the phone and coax lines (depending on time period, they have passed between private and public owners, but were always state subsidized in their deployment).

The government got involved with a lot of those examples because private firms at the time (allegedly) couldn't have gotten it done (too expensive, required easement rights on properties, etc).

The internet already exists. All of today's problems are minor in scope to the original problems of connecting the nation together. Why turn it over the government now?

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#103
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wat. It already happens. I don't get free hosting for my sites.

I think you're confused about the issue. you pay for hosting, yes, of course. You don't additionally pay individual ISPs to guarantee it's users access to your sites.

You don't pay it directly. But you are paying your hosting company who is several steps down the line paying a backbone provider to tie their network to the rest of the world's networks. So, yes, you really are paying to have other users be able to connect to your site.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#104
post #89

This peering issue has affected me a lot. I watch a lot of gaming streams online and during peek hours Twitch.tv has becomes unusable. During a major tournament this is very unfortunate. Another example of this peering dispute affecting me is with the game League of Legends. Almost everyone who is on Comcast (myself included) during peek times experiences lag that makes the game unplayable. Your character "skates" al…

Can you not change to a better ISP? It's ridiculous to be paying good money for high speed internet if your ISP can't handle the load. I've been using shaw.ca for years with zero problems since they upgraded their network to fibre, and we have two other pretty decent providers to choose from as well. I'm sure you must have a decent ISP somewhere down in the states. If not, perhaps you just need to wait for google to…

The way I understand it is that my internet traffic is like a little dog that wants to get from my yard to Netflix's yard to play. To do that, the poor pup has to cross 6 other yards to get there. Some of the yards are nice and friendly with pretty flowers to sniff along the way.

Other yards are owned by mean people that don't want to let the dog through unless it's owner (your ISP) pays them more money. If the owner doesn't pay more money, the mean yard owners will make the pup sit there and wait for a long time until they say it's okay to go (LAG).

And sometimes, the mean owner have so many dogs waiting in his yard, he decides to throw them into the street, where they are never seen nor heard from again (packet loss).

Most people could definitely change ISPs and avoid the troublesome vendors their ISP is currently peered with but I live in a town (low population) and unfortunately Comcast is about as good as it gets.

One way to get around it is to route my traffic through a proxy to bypass the troublesome vendors but that would degrade my bitrate which is frustrating since what I really want is to just get what I am paying for 50/mb and wish the internet providers would just work it out.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#106
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you not change to a better ISP? It's ridiculous to be paying good money for high speed internet if your ISP can't handle the load. I've been using shaw.ca for years with zero problems since they upgraded their network to fibre, and we have two other pretty decent providers to choose from as well. I'm sure you must have a decent ISP somewhere down in the states. If not, perhaps you just need to wait for google to…

The way I understand it is that my internet traffic is like a little dog that wants to get from my yard to Netflix's yard to play. To do that, the poor pup has to cross 6 other yards to get there. Some of the yards are nice and friendly with pretty flowers to sniff along the way. Other yards are owned by mean people that don't want to let the dog through unless it's owner (your ISP) pays them more money. If the owner…

No, that's not (always) true. My ISP's traffic goes directly from their network to Google.

According to the article Comcast are trying to charge Google for letting Comcast's customers watch youtube, which is a weird and evil way to do business. I think it basically boils down to Comcast being a really shitty ISP and you (unfortunately) not having much choice.

The irony here is that Comcast is a 10x larger company than Shaw, so perhaps it's just a case of Comcast throwing their weight around and basically resorting to extortion.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#107
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I understand it is that my internet traffic is like a little dog that wants to get from my yard to Netflix's yard to play. To do that, the poor pup has to cross 6 other yards to get there. Some of the yards are nice and friendly with pretty flowers to sniff along the way. Other yards are owned by mean people that don't want to let the dog through unless it's owner (your ISP) pays them more money. If the owner…

No, that's not (always) true. My ISP's traffic goes directly from their network to Google. According to the article Comcast are trying to charge Google for letting Comcast's customers watch youtube, which is a weird and evil way to do business. I think it basically boils down to Comcast being a really shitty ISP and you (unfortunately) not having much choice. The irony here is that Comcast is a 10x larger company tha…

:(

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ISP wanting money to install caching servers for Netflix and YouTube is not something which has been covered ny net neutrality in the past. It would be great if there was a fixed colo fee for caching servers. That said, I pay my ISP for bandwidth and service. It's bullshit if they refuse free installation of caching servers which improves my service and frees up upstream bandwidth for others.

FWIW, if Netflix agrees to install one of their appliances in your network, they do it completely free of charge. If you don't meet their requirements (which are based upon average aggregate traffic levels), you can't even pay them to get one. If your ISP meets the requirements and is refusing, well, it's their own damn fault -- they're simply wasting money. Personally, I am happy to peer with anyone with whom I shar…

Looking forward to Netflix Preferred(TM) ISP recommendations.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#109

Youtube has a very poor connection around my area in Canada. Video connections are unreliable, unexpectedly dropping or just being slow. Slower than the Kbps of the video I'm trying to watch. For youtube's client side player this is completely intolerable. Which is why you don't depend on youtube's clientside player for anything. Use SMplayers downloader, or youtube-dl, or videodownloadhelper. These make use of more…

What area? What ISP? Let's start naming and shaming.. ;) I had a pathetic experience with an ISP "reselling" Bell's DSL service. The ISP's name is Distributel. YouTube would not, at "peak times" (6pm - 9pm on weekdays, most times on weekends), work at 1080. The download speed forced you to wait for the entire clip to pre-buffer before it would be possible to play it. What was frustrating was that opening an SSH proxy…

Shaw. lower mainland. Also I can't get out of using shaw, Telus isn't competing with them, and there are no other lines into our complex. I am stuck with them, I have no choice. I want to leave.

I wish I had TekSavvy. I really do. Next time I move I'm checking which telecoms I have access to. If it's only shaw or telus, I'm demanding discounts.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, if Netflix agrees to install one of their appliances in your network, they do it completely free of charge. If you don't meet their requirements (which are based upon average aggregate traffic levels), you can't even pay them to get one. If your ISP meets the requirements and is refusing, well, it's their own damn fault -- they're simply wasting money. Personally, I am happy to peer with anyone with whom I shar…

Looking forward to Netflix Preferred(TM) ISP recommendations.

http://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/
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