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Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

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Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#51

Post by nicolethenerd »

Nursie wrote: post #22
keevie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol. It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do…

>> Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ It is, sorry. There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them. >> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. You…

Pretty sure keevie was being sarcastic.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#52

Post by asdasf »

steveklabnik wrote: post #44
asdasf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Drunk consent isn't consent Legally it is. >people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people. People are always open to accusations. I can't find evidence of a single conviction for someone consenting to sex while intoxicated. Only when causing the intoxication in the first place, without consent, does further consent get negated.

http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/pub_prosecuting_alcohol_facilitated_... references Arizona: A.R.S. §§ 13-1401 and 13-1406; Illinois: 720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/12-13; Kansas: K.S.A. § 21-3502; Maine: 17-A M.R.S. § 109; Missouri: R.S.Mo. §§ 566.040 and 566.061; and Wisconsin: Wis. Stat. § 940.225. And claims these as case law for > • Either statute or case law specifically outlaws having intercourse > with a person who is too int…

They appear to be begging the question. The statutes in question do not say that drinking negates consent, they say that it is rape if someone is too drunk to consent. You have to look at precedent to try to determine what constitutes "too drunk to consent". It is not a simple case of "oh I was drinking so nothing I say counts" as some like to portray. The law has to be careful because claiming "I was drunk" to get out of consent would also have significant repercussions on other cases, not just rape.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#53

Post by gohrt »

Nursie wrote: post #22
keevie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol. It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do…

>> Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ It is, sorry. There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them. >> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. You…

> There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them.

Is there an objective test, that can be administered by a third party, to differentiate between these two cases? If not, then what?

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#54

Post by jwoah12 »

asdasf wrote: post #37

Why does this frequently "invented" useless item keep getting press every time it is "invented" for the dozenth time? These are really misguided devices, that give people a false sense of safety (it is even labeled "safe" on the non-spiked drink) when alcohol is far and away the most used and most dangerous date rape drug.

You could always invent your own strip that detects alcohol and displays UNSAFE. That way people will be reminded before they drink their vodka tonic that it contains alcohol.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#55

Post by hfsktr »

eggbrain wrote: post #26

This is a great invention that can help prevent abuse, but I'm worried bars won't buy in for a few reasons: 1) I assume the cups have to be disposable, as the strips probably don't work multiple times. Most bars I've been to don't use disposable cups. 2) Even if they did, it has to be cost effective for the bar to consider using them. If 1000 cups is $250 (0.25/cup) and you can get 10,000 normal cups for that price,…

On number 3, people might think the opposite too. "We can go here and not have to worry!" I wonder how that would factor into how much someone drinks "Since there are no drugs to worry about, the people must be trustworthy enough to get blackout drunk around!"

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#56

Post by ColinWright »

sixothree wrote: post #47
justinsteele wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding #3, what data are you going off to say that Rohypnol has not been detected, and that drugging overall is uncommon? I have experienced it twice in the past 18 months through friends whom I have drank with many times, and had a very obvious reaction to one drink which often had been bought for them or left on a table/bar at some point that evening. Unless someone poured them a drink comprised of 6+ shots wort…

I've had it happen to me as well. I was very young at the time and only had two drinks the entire night. Luckily I was with safe friends, so it could have been worse. Shockingly once at a party I was offered to buy rohypnol. I was lurid. I certainly don't look like the type of person who would buy drugs, much less from a random stranger...

    > I was lurid.
    > ......^^^^^.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lurid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#57

Post by EricDeb »

keevie wrote: post #9
Nursie wrote: post #3

1. Awesome invention, straws that detect adulterants and change colour 2. Obviously people do get drugged occasionally, the inventor seems to have had it happen to him 3. Unfortunately there seems to be no real evidence that GHB or ketamine are often used in sexual assaults, and even Rohypnol which has the worst reputation has not often been detected. A straw that could detect a drink that's stronger than you think i…

None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol. It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do…

I'll assume you're being sarcastic with the condoning of sexual assault, however one difference is that a person who drinks a lot after being offered said drinks is complicit in their own intoxication, whereas with a date rape drug they are unaware

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#58

Post by peterwwillis »

asdasf wrote: post #31
DanBC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. They really do. Drunk consent isn't consent, and people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people.

>Drunk consent isn't consent Legally it is. >people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people. People are always open to accusations. I can't find evidence of a single conviction for someone consenting to sex while intoxicated. Only when causing the intoxication in the first place, without consent, does further consent get negated.

There is no legal definition of "drunk consent". It's up to a jury to decide if a person was too intoxicated to consent. It's also extremely hard to prove, which is part of why rape convictions are rare.

There are definitely laws about surreptitiously intoxicating someone, however, which may quickly lead to conviction if proven.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#59

Post by foobarbazqux »

sixothree wrote: post #47
justinsteele wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding #3, what data are you going off to say that Rohypnol has not been detected, and that drugging overall is uncommon? I have experienced it twice in the past 18 months through friends whom I have drank with many times, and had a very obvious reaction to one drink which often had been bought for them or left on a table/bar at some point that evening. Unless someone poured them a drink comprised of 6+ shots wort…

I've had it happen to me as well. I was very young at the time and only had two drinks the entire night. Luckily I was with safe friends, so it could have been worse. Shockingly once at a party I was offered to buy rohypnol. I was lurid. I certainly don't look like the type of person who would buy drugs, much less from a random stranger...

What does the type of person who would buy drugs look like?

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#60

Post by ZoF »

Nursie wrote: post #22
keevie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol. It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do…

>> Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ It is, sorry. There's nothing wrong with two people having a few drinks and going to bed together. But it's at the very least creepy to plan to knock someone's inhibitions down that way, or to take advantage of them. >> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. You…

Is he saying that he uses it that way himself? No.

He's saying that society doesn't view it as negatively as it should... You shouldn't need to lower someones inhibitions for them to sleep with you...

The very fact that you say "it's creepy to lower someones inhibitions that way" only serves to reinforce his point... It's not just "creepy" it's downright fucked up; and for a portion of society it is common-case usage.

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