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Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

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Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#31

Post by asdasf »

DanBC wrote: post #20
keevie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol. It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do…

> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. They really do. Drunk consent isn't consent, and people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people.

>Drunk consent isn't consent

Legally it is.

>people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people.

People are always open to accusations. I can't find evidence of a single conviction for someone consenting to sex while intoxicated. Only when causing the intoxication in the first place, without consent, does further consent get negated.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#32

Post by regal »

keevie wrote: post #9
Nursie wrote: post #3

1. Awesome invention, straws that detect adulterants and change colour 2. Obviously people do get drugged occasionally, the inventor seems to have had it happen to him 3. Unfortunately there seems to be no real evidence that GHB or ketamine are often used in sexual assaults, and even Rohypnol which has the worst reputation has not often been detected. A straw that could detect a drink that's stronger than you think i…

None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol. It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do…

You mean no one really objects to people drinking enough to make bad decisions with one another, then hating themselves for it so much that they... proceed to go out again and get drunk again and make bad decisions with one another again, and do it over and over and over again?

You might almost think people like sex and alcohol from all this insanity. Next thing you know, they'll be opening up establishments where men and women go to get drunk and pick each other for sloppy drunk scores. That'll be the day...

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#33

Post by g4m8i7 »

Nursie wrote: post #18
justinsteele wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's arguable. I think the line between "these friends know each other and have been flirtatious in the past, it's okay that they got drunk one night and hooked up" and "this random person put a date rape drug in that other person's drink so they could take advantage of their state" is extremely large.

>> "this random person put a date rape drug in that other person's drink so they could take advantage of their state" This is the straw man in the situation though - it's usually someone the victim knows. (edit: I'm not really sure straw man is the right term here...)

Closer to False Dichotomy.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#34

Post by DanBC »

asdasf wrote: post #31
DanBC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. They really do. Drunk consent isn't consent, and people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people.

>Drunk consent isn't consent Legally it is. >people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people. People are always open to accusations. I can't find evidence of a single conviction for someone consenting to sex while intoxicated. Only when causing the intoxication in the first place, without consent, does further consent get negated.

> >Drunk consent isn't consent

> Legally it is.

Not where I live.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#35

Post by Nursie »

kevingadd wrote: post #24
Nursie wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Regarding #3, what data are you going off to say that Rohypnol has not been detected, and that drugging overall is uncommon? Wikipedia has links to a couple of studies. It says Rohypnol was detected in less than 1% of cases of sexual assault where drugging was suspected. I obviously have no idea what you and your friends have seen or been through or what they may have been spiked with. I'm just saying that wheneve…

The OP itself describes how the numbers are going to be heavily skewed because of how the drugs get metabolized and how often people don't report...

Right, but it seems to be that even when drugs are suspected and tested for within a pretty rapid time period, most often alcohol is the culprit - http://www.octevaw-cocvff.ca/sites/all/files/pdf/reports/Dru...

Rohypnol in particular should be easy to pick up, Flunitrazepam has a halflife of 18+ hours and at least one metabolite has a halflife of 36-200 hours. In fact according to this - http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/201894.pdf - it can be detected in urine for 5 days and hair for a month.

If people are unlikely to report, or if drugs that are metabolised faster are used then sure, we may not have good data. But then all we can really say is we don't have good data.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#36

Post by tassl »

king_jester wrote: post #21
keevie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol. It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose. Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do…

> Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Uh what? Getting someone drunk so you can impair their ability to consent or so you can overpower them is most certainly wrong.

I think he was being sarcastic on how buying somebody drinks is considered socially ok (even expected on some countries).

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#37

Post by asdasf »

Why does this frequently "invented" useless item keep getting press every time it is "invented" for the dozenth time? These are really misguided devices, that give people a false sense of safety (it is even labeled "safe" on the non-spiked drink) when alcohol is far and away the most used and most dangerous date rape drug.

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#38

Post by asdasf »

DanBC wrote: post #34
asdasf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Drunk consent isn't consent Legally it is. >people leave themselves open to accusations of, and convictions for, rape if they have sex with drunk people. People are always open to accusations. I can't find evidence of a single conviction for someone consenting to sex while intoxicated. Only when causing the intoxication in the first place, without consent, does further consent get negated.

> >Drunk consent isn't consent > Legally it is. Not where I live.

Where do you live? Can you cite a law or case that demonstrates you are correct in your belief?

Re: Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs

#39

Post by justin66 »

Nursie wrote: post #16
justinsteele wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding #3, what data are you going off to say that Rohypnol has not been detected, and that drugging overall is uncommon? I have experienced it twice in the past 18 months through friends whom I have drank with many times, and had a very obvious reaction to one drink which often had been bought for them or left on a table/bar at some point that evening. Unless someone poured them a drink comprised of 6+ shots wort…

>> Regarding #3, what data are you going off to say that Rohypnol has not been detected, and that drugging overall is uncommon? Wikipedia has links to a couple of studies. It says Rohypnol was detected in less than 1% of cases of sexual assault where drugging was suspected. I obviously have no idea what you and your friends have seen or been through or what they may have been spiked with. I'm just saying that wheneve…

> It says Rohypnol was detected in less than 1% of cases of sexual assault where drugging was suspected.

That might not mean what you think it means.

From http://www.drugs.com/rohypnol.html :

> It is difficult to estimate the number of Rohypnol-facilitated rapes in the United States. Very often, biological samples are taken from the victim at a time when the effects of the drug have already passed and only residual amounts remain in the body fluids. These residual amounts are difficult, if not impossible, to detect using standard screening assays available in the United States. If Rohypnol exposure is to be detected at all, urine samples need to be collected within 72 hours and subjected to sensitive analytical tests.

Now, the bit about "sensitive analytical tests" has me pretty worried. We are living in a nation where an awful lot of rape kits collected after the crime of rape are simply put on a shelf because there is no money to process them. I bet that "sensitive analytical tests" aren't even on the menu a lot of times.

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