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Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

bitcoin.co.th

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Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#41

Post by clarkmoody »

Nursie wrote: post #9
dreen wrote: post #4

- Buying Bitcoins - Selling Bitcoins - Buying any goods or services in exchange for Bitcoins - Selling any goods or services for Bitcoins - Sending Bitcoins to anyone located outside of Thailand - Receiving Bitcoins from anyone located outside of Thailand I think what they mean is that its impossible for a company to do any of the above things legally. Its not possible to enforce this on the individual level.

>> Its not possible to enforce this on the individual level. Why not? From what little I understand it's pretty easy to spot bitcoin related traffic on a network, transactions in particular. Thailand already has some sort of national filtering/porn censorship set up IIRC.

If the person in question is running a Bitcoin wallet, that is. Receiving and sending via blockchain.info online wallets would require masking website traffic only, and there are lots of ways to do this.

Receiving via offline wallet would be completely untraceable, unless the addresses were know a priori by the authorities. Checking the balance on a web-based blockchain viewer could tip off the watchers, but the same precautions apply here as for the above case.

Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#42

Post by cs702 »

Thailand's "Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department" has advised that, quoting from the OP: "the following Bitcoin activities are illegal in Thailand: buying Bitcoins; selling Bitcoins; buying any goods or services in exchange for Bitcoins; selling any goods or services for Bitcoins; sending Bitcoins to anyone located outside of Thailand; receiving Bitcoins from anyone located outside of Thailand."

We can get a sense of how successful and lasting this edict will be with a simple mental experiment: replace "Bitcoin" with "US Dollar." The edict thus becomes: "the following US Dollar activities are illegal in Thailand: buying US Dollars; selling US Dollars; buying any goods or services in exchange for US Dollars; selling any goods or services for US Dollars; sending US Dollars to anyone located outside of Thailand; receiving US Dollars from anyone located outside of Thailand." How successful could that edict be, and how long could it last, realistically?

Foreign exchange controls are normally difficult to implement and enforce. Control of Bitcoin -- a decentralized, optionally anonymous, virtual commodity -- should be even more difficult.

I suspect a lot of Bitcoin trading volume in Thailand will simply go underground.

Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#43

Post by Nursie »

clarkmoody wrote: post #41
Nursie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Its not possible to enforce this on the individual level. Why not? From what little I understand it's pretty easy to spot bitcoin related traffic on a network, transactions in particular. Thailand already has some sort of national filtering/porn censorship set up IIRC.

If the person in question is running a Bitcoin wallet, that is. Receiving and sending via blockchain.info online wallets would require masking website traffic only, and there are lots of ways to do this. Receiving via offline wallet would be completely untraceable, unless the addresses were know a priori by the authorities. Checking the balance on a web-based blockchain viewer could tip off the watchers, but the same…

Receiving via an offline wallet... You mean effectively a savings account that is inbound only? Sure, no traffic needs to come to you then.

I'm sure there are ways to secure the traffic. As it stands, however, running your own node, mining, and sending BTC is pretty detectable.

Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#44

Post by helterskelter7 »

mjn wrote: post #8
dreen wrote: post #4

- Buying Bitcoins - Selling Bitcoins - Buying any goods or services in exchange for Bitcoins - Selling any goods or services for Bitcoins - Sending Bitcoins to anyone located outside of Thailand - Receiving Bitcoins from anyone located outside of Thailand I think what they mean is that its impossible for a company to do any of the above things legally. Its not possible to enforce this on the individual level.

Yes, as the statement notes, the Thai government didn't seek anyone out, and don't appear to be actively interested in whether people are making Bitcoin transactions. Rather, a company, Bitcoin Co. Ltd., asked the Bank of Thailand for an opinion on the legality of their operations and whether any licenses were needed. The Bank of Thailand responded that such activities can't be licensed under current law. Therefore,…

I think your logic is wrong. The Bank of Thailand clearly stated that such operations are illegal. They did not say that they cannot legislate it but rather, that they are illegal and must not be carried out. And this is the reason why Bitcoin Co. Ltd. suspended operations. Now what you stated. I think the text was quite clear.

Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#45

Post by genwin »

tpatke wrote: post #15

The key factor to the success of any currency is liquidity. You are only willing to put money in if you can take money out. If the government of Thailand says it is illegal to transfer money in or out - that will effect liquidity in Thailand. How will this be enforced? First, banks and reputable institutions doing business in Thailand will not be allowed to trade with companies involved in bitcoin exchange. Of course…

When a the gov't forbids something that seems victimless it's usually for the the benefit of the few, against the general public. Thais should now have more interest in bitcoin like Americans did for gold when that was illegal to own in the US.

Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#46

Post by Nursie »

cs702 wrote: post #42

Thailand's "Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department" has advised that, quoting from the OP: "the following Bitcoin activities are illegal in Thailand: buying Bitcoins; selling Bitcoins; buying any goods or services in exchange for Bitcoins; selling any goods or services for Bitcoins; sending Bitcoins to anyone located outside of Thailand; receiving Bitcoins from anyone located outside of Thailand." We c…

They may indeed go underground. That means that legitimate businesses will have a hard time dealing with them if they deal with them at all.

Make no mistake, even if governments can't stop people trading bitcoin, they can stop it becoming mainstream in the way many BTC enthusiasts seem to want.

Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#47

Post by helterskelter7 »

I have a different explanation. Like many corrupt Asian governments (and I have lived in Asia for 10y+) they usually abide to this principle: if you discover some new way to make money, we either have to make money too out of it and without doing anything, or you have to stop. So in this case my theory is that they looked at it and like most computer illiterate governments they thought to stop it until they understand how the game works and start making money out of it themselves. I mean personally. Expect pretty soon to see some new Bitcoin service to appear in Thailand, with some weird license from the government, and founded (probably indirectly) by some corrupted member of the government or someone from their relatives.

Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#48

Post by mjn »

helterskelter7 wrote: post #44
mjn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as the statement notes, the Thai government didn't seek anyone out, and don't appear to be actively interested in whether people are making Bitcoin transactions. Rather, a company, Bitcoin Co. Ltd., asked the Bank of Thailand for an opinion on the legality of their operations and whether any licenses were needed. The Bank of Thailand responded that such activities can't be licensed under current law. Therefore,…

I think your logic is wrong. The Bank of Thailand clearly stated that such operations are illegal . They did not say that they cannot legislate it but rather, that they are illegal and must not be carried out. And this is the reason why Bitcoin Co. Ltd. suspended operations. Now what you stated. I think the text was quite clear.

Yes, that's what my comment indicates: the company inquired whether a license is needed, and whether it could be granted. The Bank of Thailand says that yes, one would be needed (they are engaged in financial services, after all), but under current law cannot be granted (there is no provision for licensing the kind of financial services the company proposes to carry out). Hence, the company decided to suspend operations.

The point is that the initiators of the discussion were a company seeking information about operating as a financial-services company. It wasn't a police-initiated operation, like a raid on an individual buying things with Bitcoin, or something of that sort.

Re: Bitcoin ruled illegal in Thailand

#50

Post by cromulent »

northwest wrote: post #23

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it applies to any nation that the government always retains the monopoly of "issuing" a currency. EDIT: ...which probably means that sooner or later, bitcoin will probably be outlawed everywhere.

A fiat currency is one declared by a government, but there are many private currencies out there.

For example, the Chiemgauer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiemgauer

In most cases, using a different medium of exchange is legal. For example, a merchant can accept Euros if they choose.

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