Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

antonyloewenstein.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 98 posts

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#71

Post by kaonashi »

ak39 wrote: post #26
brockers wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a huge fan of Snowdens, of ending the Orwellian institutionalization of our democratic society, and even of Chomsky's statements in this instance but in Soup10's defence, Noam Chomsky IS an anti-American/anti-Government liberal socialist anarchist (in fact that is how he would describe HIMSELF) who uses linguistic gymnastics to de-construct cultural norms in a way the reflects his own ideology. As such he almost…

Define "Anti-American" please.

The belief that America should not be constrained by the morality of its actions. Essentially the same Nixonian argument "when the president does it, that means it's not illegal", which becomes "when the United States does it, that means it's not immoral or illegal".

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#72

Post by tome »

soup10 wrote: post #4

Chomsky takes the anti-American, or anti-government side of any and all debates and writes whiny essays full of sarcastic jabs that preach to a choir of the faithful. He makes no attempt to consider the side of government(or whoever he as casting as the villain at the moment of his self righteous spiel). It's as much of a tragedy to take him seriously as it is to take radical right think tank garbage seriously.

It's a shame you're being downvoted. Chomsky is clearly an idealist and he's never mananged to convince me he has a clue about how human beings and the real world actually work.

Would I like to live in peace and prosperity in Chomsky's dream anarcho-liberal world? Of course. Do I think humanity can get there in the next hundred years. No way. We are all allowed to dream, but thank goodness some of us are also realistic.

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#73

Post by omonra »

ak39 wrote: post #51
omonra wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This site is a collection of articles written by scores of writers of various political persuasions over decades. I would expect Chomsky supporters with an iota of critical thinking to be able to read them and see for themselves how reliable they are (and not just jump to wikipedia to check who assembled them).

Right. Since we are all in favour of being critical (which is all good), can we only look at some of the main points Bogdanor compiles against Chomsky which he parades them as hoaxes. This in order to see who the true hoaxer is (Chomsky or Bogdanor?): http://bigwhiteogre.blogspot.com/2011/06/response-to-paul-bo... Bogdanor is simply not convincing as a unbiased critique of Chomsky's works. It's tantamount to comparin…

Your article main point is that 'Chomsky's lies are not lies - they are things that reasonable men can disagree about'. As someone who actually grew up in USSR and knows a lot about its history, I can tell you that reasonable men (ie historians) do not disagree about these things.

The more time passes from each issue, the more clear it becomes - which is why he's not taken seriously anymore. His excuses for tyrannical regimes just because they were anti-American are blatant.

We should all be thankful that we don't live in a world he wishes were true - that was already done on massive scale in Russia and millions have suffered as a result.

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#74

Post by new_test »

fixxer wrote: post #15
soup10 wrote: post #4

Chomsky takes the anti-American, or anti-government side of any and all debates and writes whiny essays full of sarcastic jabs that preach to a choir of the faithful. He makes no attempt to consider the side of government(or whoever he as casting as the villain at the moment of his self righteous spiel). It's as much of a tragedy to take him seriously as it is to take radical right think tank garbage seriously.

We disagree.

Who the fuck are "we"?

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#75

Post by [deleted] »

omonra wrote: post #32
eksith wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent! I always wanted to read a completely unbiased (and totally not cherry-picked and wasn't compiled by a fanatical detractor) resource on Chomsky's collected works. Clearly, this is it. Worth noting, Paul Bogdanor contributed to The Anti-Chomsky Reader : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anti-Chomsky_Reader While I'm educating myself, I really should tune to Rush Limbaugh to learn about contraception, feminism…

Good point, stay in the communist bubble. G-d forbid you read something critical that changes your mind. Much better to hide behind 'criticism is written by people who dislike him, so not worth reading' defense. Perhaps you should consider that they dislike him for a reason. What I can tell you is that the man is vile - read up on his excuses for Pol Pot, Stalin and the like.

[deleted]

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#76

Post by [deleted] »

orbitingpluto wrote: post #16

Unsurprisingly, non-Americans take exception to American exceptionalism. America is literally pulling a, "We're better than you so we can violate any of your laws - including our own - and then murder, torture & kidnap. We are sovereign over the entire world." Few non-Americans think that's a swell idea, so it will only last as long as American power lasts. If you agree with Chomsky or not or if you think American po…

[deleted]

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#77

Post by jes »

jgalt212 wrote: post #35

Stop posting Chomsky stuff to HN. He is not an intellectual. He either cannot, or refuses to see both sides of the coin--either in his political writings or academic writings (e.g. there profound and valid empirical cracks in his universal grammar model that he's failed to acknowledge). Down with Chomsky. Down vote me, I don't really care. I'd surely trade all my HN Karma for a reduction in Chomsky related posts to H…

With respect, you really haven't provided a good argument here. Some references that support your claims would be helpful.

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#79

Post by mikeash »

tome wrote: post #68
orbitingpluto wrote: post #16

Unsurprisingly, non-Americans take exception to American exceptionalism. America is literally pulling a, "We're better than you so we can violate any of your laws - including our own - and then murder, torture & kidnap. We are sovereign over the entire world." Few non-Americans think that's a swell idea, so it will only last as long as American power lasts. If you agree with Chomsky or not or if you think American po…

Do you know what "American Exceptionalism" means? What do you think is wrong with that characterisation? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

Approximately all of it is wrong. The USA is exceptional precisely because it's the most powerful, and nothing more.

Re: Chomsky praises Snowden and condemns US hypocrisy

#80

Post by pessimizer »

speeder wrote: post #47
cconroy wrote: post #18

(This has nothing to do with Snowden but Chomsky's main point.) One thing I found troubling about all this is you can't expect the victims in other countries to decouple the intentions of the American gov't from American citizens. Except (even more troubling) is that citizens seem to support drone warfare ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/10/m... ).

Frankly, excepting a few circles (like, Hackers) most US citizens I've met support US government positions, even the most stupid ones, maybe out of ignorance... But they do. I remember even once, I was eating in a restaurant in front of my home (literally, it was across the street), and 3 US citizens were talking in english in a nearby table... Their conversation was one of the most horrible things I heard in a while…

I don't think the college-educated middle class voting right-wing fascists into government is anything exclusive to the US. Seems pretty universal to me.
Post reply on HN