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Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

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Re: Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

#11

Post by northwest »

mtgx wrote: post #8
northwest wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rather I'd suggest that the PRISM search tool be made available to every citizen on the planet. Of course you are joking. But if you think about it: If humanity is forced to give up privacy, the only way we could achieve this would be by giving it up symmetrically : If everybody is naked, it's normal and not a problem anymore, provided we can then evolve our culture to completely drop the "judging".

Governments should have to give up "privacy" first, since they're supposed to be public, and everything they do should be public. Then maybe we can talk about giving up some of the privacy for citizens, too - as long as it's compatible with the Constitution (and I think this program is not even close to being compatible).

Absolutely.

Re: Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

#12

Post by [deleted] »

hga wrote: post #7
northwest wrote: post #3

“I was back out at NSA just last week, spent a couple hours out there with high and low level NSA officials,” Chambliss said. “And what I have been assured of is that there is no capability at NSA for anyone without a court order to listen to any telephone conversation or to monitor any e-mail.” How _dumb_ must one be to continue to trust these agencies for just about anything, now? After they blatantly lie in Congre…

Errr, given how easy it appears to be to get a "court order" (note, that's not as high a bar as a "search warrant"), I don't have as much difficultly believing that's the case. The case today, that is; tomorrow.... (Technical note: right now I gather the NSA et. al. are making a distinction between Hoovering up "everything", like all of Verizon Business's call records in that blanket warrant we've seen, and actually…

[deleted]

Re: Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

#13

Post by falk »

northwest wrote: post #3

“I was back out at NSA just last week, spent a couple hours out there with high and low level NSA officials,” Chambliss said. “And what I have been assured of is that there is no capability at NSA for anyone without a court order to listen to any telephone conversation or to monitor any e-mail.” How _dumb_ must one be to continue to trust these agencies for just about anything, now? After they blatantly lie in Congre…

It's all in the language they use. They are scooping up all the phone calls, emails, etc. they possibly can. They then go get a warrant to process that information or so they can use it in court and what have you. And like you said, getting a warrant is a joke. Especially through the FISA court.

Re: Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

#14

Post by pvnick »

falk wrote: post #4

This is how I think the Congressional committee hearing will go down Wednesday. Or perhaps some variation of this. 1. Greenwald testifies and talks about all the awful things the NSA has been up to. 2. NSA offials will deny any and all claims made by Greenwald. 3. Greenwald will release documents that directly refute the NSA's testimonial.

This seems to have been the plan all along, and it's working brilliantly. As Greenwald said in the recent Majority Report interview [1] we are still "near the beginning of the revelations," so I think we're going to continue catching high officials in the middle of lies.

[1] http://majority.fm/2013/07/25/725-glenn-greenwald-the-impact...

Re: Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

#16

Post by drewcrawford »

northwest wrote: post #3

“I was back out at NSA just last week, spent a couple hours out there with high and low level NSA officials,” Chambliss said. “And what I have been assured of is that there is no capability at NSA for anyone without a court order to listen to any telephone conversation or to monitor any e-mail.” How _dumb_ must one be to continue to trust these agencies for just about anything, now? After they blatantly lie in Congre…

> How _dumb_ must one be to continue to trust these agencies

Taking a deep breath for a moment, if you look at TFA it contains two contradicting allegations, from sources that appear to me to be roughly similarly credible.

On what evidentiary basis have you decided one source is more reliable than the other? And why are the people who believe the other source "lobotomized"?

I am not really sure what is going on here, but I do not feel that this article alone presents a sufficient basis for a reasonable person to form an opinion.

Re: Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

#18

Post by dakotasmith »

northwest wrote: post #3

“I was back out at NSA just last week, spent a couple hours out there with high and low level NSA officials,” Chambliss said. “And what I have been assured of is that there is no capability at NSA for anyone without a court order to listen to any telephone conversation or to monitor any e-mail.” How _dumb_ must one be to continue to trust these agencies for just about anything, now? After they blatantly lie in Congre…

We could also suspect that the giant spying apparatus has compromised our government officials with intelligence gathered on anyone in a position to oppose it.

Re: Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

#19

Post by lukeschlather »

falk wrote: post #4

This is how I think the Congressional committee hearing will go down Wednesday. Or perhaps some variation of this. 1. Greenwald testifies and talks about all the awful things the NSA has been up to. 2. NSA offials will deny any and all claims made by Greenwald. 3. Greenwald will release documents that directly refute the NSA's testimonial.

Please, take the time to read the article.

> “In fact, we don’t monitor emails. That’s what kind of assures me is that what the reporting is is not correct. Because no emails are monitored now,” [Senator] Chambliss said. “They used to be, but that stopped two or three years ago. So I feel confident that there may have been some abuse, but if it was it was pure accidental.”

They've essentially admitted that Greenwald's information is accurate, they're just claiming that Greenwald is late to the party and they've already dealt with the problem in secret.

It's interesting, because if you go back over the testimony I'm very sure that all of the NSA denials will be in the present tense. So it's quite possible that the NSA has not been lying at all, they've just been counting on us to fill in "That has never happened" when all they've said is "we do not [currently] do that."

Re: Greenwald: Low-Level NSA Analysts Have Powerful and Invasive Search Tool [video]

#20

Post by danenania »

falk wrote: post #13
northwest wrote: post #3

“I was back out at NSA just last week, spent a couple hours out there with high and low level NSA officials,” Chambliss said. “And what I have been assured of is that there is no capability at NSA for anyone without a court order to listen to any telephone conversation or to monitor any e-mail.” How _dumb_ must one be to continue to trust these agencies for just about anything, now? After they blatantly lie in Congre…

It's all in the language they use. They are scooping up all the phone calls, emails, etc. they possibly can. They then go get a warrant to process that information or so they can use it in court and what have you. And like you said, getting a warrant is a joke. Especially through the FISA court.

But Greenwald is claiming that there is nothing technical stopping low level analysts from snooping on anyone without any form of authorization. This directly counters the line put forth by the national security establishment and its apologists since the revelations began.
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