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My hell as a 911 operator

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Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#11
post #3
post #2

Lowest bidder? No one loses their job for someone dying? Sounds like a perfect storm. I'd love to see an itemization for $88 Million and how many vacation homes were bought.

They don't always take lowest bidder.... sometimes it really just boils down to who the contractor knows, or what favors they've done for people (even if they are incompetant)

This is generally not true. What it generally boils down to with government contracts is a really sweet dog and pony show from the RFP process. Generally people lack the critical thinking skills necessary to determine if a company can really fill their needs. They don't know the difference between a COTS system and one built from the ground up. They don't know the difference between a hosted solution and one running on their own servers.

I would say very rarely does it come down to simply being the lowest bidder or nepotism.

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#12

Pre-9-11, I spent some time doing some high-level analysis, talking to users and administrators, of a nation-wide EMS system for an entire country (Sorry, can't say which) It was a U.S. firm interested in figuring out exactly how much it would cost to create a national system so they could bid on it. This does not have to be a very complicated system at all. It's basically a real-time workflow system. Information com…

"This does not have to be a very complicated system at all. It's basically a real-time workflow system. Information comes in, is assigned a type and other data, and depending on the values is routed to various other people, which also tag and update it. "

So basically SharePoint?

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#13
post #6
post #4

This seems like a great opportunity for someone to develop an open source high-availability, fault-tolerant 911 dispatch system. Being able to get first responders where they're needed as fast as possible would provide a tremendous public good.

That's not how things work... You can't just create some system and see governments flock to you. There are years of consulting and specification requirements. Linux is open source... Office Libre... Go convince a public office to switch to Ubuntu.. Saving money is often at the bottom of their focus.. and then you have competing interests releasing figures that show it is more costly to switch to free alternatives. P…

>There are years of ...

Yes, First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Sorry, I know it's trite, but there's some truth there. Being ignored for years is not necessarily a reason not to do something. In some cases it's the very best reason to do it.

[EDIT] - would those people down-voting please explain why?

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how things work... You can't just create some system and see governments flock to you. There are years of consulting and specification requirements. Linux is open source... Office Libre... Go convince a public office to switch to Ubuntu.. Saving money is often at the bottom of their focus.. and then you have competing interests releasing figures that show it is more costly to switch to free alternatives. P…

>There are years of ... Yes, First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Sorry, I know it's trite, but there's some truth there. Being ignored for years is not necessarily a reason not to do something. In some cases it's the very best reason to do it. [EDIT] - would those people down-voting please explain why?

I don't see how you could develop such a system without partnership from some government. How would you test it?

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#15
post #9

Having been involved in long, arduous government procurement processes, I can assure you that it will leave you shaking your head and wondering how ANYTHING in government gets done. The trip from RFP to signed contract is maddening and has probably driven more than one government worker to an alcoholic stupor, wishing for the sweet embrace of death. On a side note, I'm no longer a government employee. My name is Greg…

When I was freelancing, I did some government work. I was flabbergasted by the slow pace at which things moved, and that I had to create accounts in 3 separate systems to submit and get paid for even very basic invoices.

Government is a place that is ripe for disruption, but the walls around it are so high, I don't know how to really breach them. There is a huge machine in place of contractors and lobbyists which essentially maintain a strict control over all IT contracts that come out of the public sector. Massive corporate entities with an entrenched web of influencers at every level of government, ensuring that only a select few even have an opportunity to realistically compete for the jobs. The amount of overspending that could be eliminated with the disruption of those entities probably represents a significant portion of local, state, and national budgets, not to mention the likely better solutions that could be presented by folks more accustomed to working efficiently.

I'm not necessarily saying the 20 somethings who were going to make "Snapchat for dogs" could do a better job as government contractors. But certainly someone who designed infrastructure for Twitter might have some interesting perspective on how to manage 911 traffic.

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are years of ... Yes, First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Sorry, I know it's trite, but there's some truth there. Being ignored for years is not necessarily a reason not to do something. In some cases it's the very best reason to do it. [EDIT] - would those people down-voting please explain why?

I don't see how you could develop such a system without partnership from some government. How would you test it?

You have just read a perfect description what this program needs, from there it's just attributes ..

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#17
Twitter can handle north of 4k tweets per second on virtually entirely open source software and these morons can't record phone calls. If this is not a glaring example of government mismanagement and waste I don't know what is. Where are the criminal indictments?

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#18

Pre-9-11, I spent some time doing some high-level analysis, talking to users and administrators, of a nation-wide EMS system for an entire country (Sorry, can't say which) It was a U.S. firm interested in figuring out exactly how much it would cost to create a national system so they could bid on it. This does not have to be a very complicated system at all. It's basically a real-time workflow system. Information com…

The technical complexity of the problem has nothing at all to do with the political and legal maneuvering required to get and execute a large government contract.

Or a large contract with any organization, as far as I can tell. In universities, the whole education-ware thing is a mess, with huge piles of contractor dollars going to junk like Blackboard, who manage to sell things to high-level administrators. By far the best education-ware software I've used is stuff that was developed for almost nothing by comparison: 1) a course-specific tool a student made as a senior project; and 2) a wiki. In industry, I have some third-hand knowledge of a large procurement project at a petrochemical company that spent somewhere in the 9 or 10 figures on document digitization and didn't deliver any document digitization.

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#19
post #11
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't always take lowest bidder.... sometimes it really just boils down to who the contractor knows, or what favors they've done for people (even if they are incompetant)

This is generally not true. What it generally boils down to with government contracts is a really sweet dog and pony show from the RFP process. Generally people lack the critical thinking skills necessary to determine if a company can really fill their needs. They don't know the difference between a COTS system and one built from the ground up. They don't know the difference between a hosted solution and one running…

Sometimes it does, due to the (near) total ignorance of what this is all about.

10 years ago I was briefly employed by a contractor for a state government that was working on a system a bit like this, although not hardly so life critical. The original system had been written and customized by the one of the big names like Lockheed or CSC and was pretty good as these things go ... but the state put continued maintenance out for bid and gave it to another company. With no transition, and really counterproductive budgeting.

I.e. around a year previously another guy was hired to do what I did, and let go after a month or two because of money.

What was I hired to do? The most difficult job of software archaeology I've ever attempted, not counting one code base that was impossible (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6092960). The original programmers, probably on site, used SCCS (!) ... until they stopped some months before producing the binaries running on the system.

Other minor details: the system ran on DEC Alpha hardware and their version of UNIX(TM), and of course by then it was a doomed system with no migration path for binaries. The state budgeted the project and made its milestones based on estimates made by another consulting company, and those were not based on reality.

I bailed when it became clear there was no possible way to meet the state's demands, e.g. a point when I realized that if there was a way to recreate the production binaries I wasn't going to be able to find it, and they were assuming the sources were in a lot better shape.

Re: My hell as a 911 operator

#20
A lot of posts here talk about open source projects or the relative simplicity of implementing something like this at it's core: I agree with the idea though I understand that emergency systems require a high level of reliability similar to mil-spec hardware I imagine. If there was any justification for that price of 88+ mil, that would be it. Looks like that went right out the damn window. All systems have bugs, I think we can all agree on that, but I'd like to know that they followed the most sensical procedure to rolling this out. Did they test it prior to release? How did they test it. Did they bother with unit tests at the lowest level? Did they perform thorough integration tests? Did they consider rolling out incrementally (if possible) the new system so that they wouldn't be completely left out in the rain when it failed? What contingency plans if any did they build into the system upon failure? What was wrong with the old system, and what did the new system promise to deliver?

It's a lot of questions I wish more journalism would answer. On another note. It's interesting to think about open source. As some have mentioned, it's difficult to imagine the feasibility of actually doing an open source version and getting it adopted (though that may be because I don't know how EMS stuff is structured). Though I think all would benefit from a source code release of this system so we could actually crowdsource a better friggin' version because this one clearly isn't doing its job...since May.

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